Elders - Who are they? Who needs them? What do they do?
This should be a rousing and mutually beneficial discussion, don't you think?
By way of conversation starters... how about these?
WHAT ELDERS ARE & DO:
Acts 20:17-31
17 From Miletus, Paul sent to Ephesus for the elders of the church. …
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.
Acts 14:23
23 Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.
1 Peter 5:1-4
5:1 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers-not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.
1 Tim 5:17-20
17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching *. 18 For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages." 19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20 Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.
1 Tim 4:14
14 Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.
James 5:14
14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.
Eph 4:11
11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors* and teachers,
* NT:4166
poimen (poy-mane'); of uncertain affinity; a shepherd (literally or figuratively):
Acts 11:27-30
27 During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.) 29 The disciples, each according to his ability, decided to provide help for the brothers living in Judea. 30 This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.
Acts 21:17-19
17 When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly. 18 The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. 19 Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
QUALIFICATIONS:
Titus 1:5-9
5 The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. 6 An elder must be
• blameless,
• the husband of but one wife,
• a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
7 Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be
• blameless-not overbearing,
• not quick-tempered,
• not given to drunkenness,
• not violent,
• not pursuing dishonest gain.
8 Rather he must be
• hospitable,
• one who loves what is good,
• who is self-controlled,
• upright,
• holy and
• disciplined.
9 He must
• hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught,
so that he can
• encourage others by sound doctrine and
• refute those who oppose it.
1 Tim 3:1-13
3:1 Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task.
2 Now the overseer must be
• above reproach,
• the husband of but one wife,
• temperate,
• self-controlled,
• respectable,
• hospitable,
• able to teach, see endnote 1
• 3 not given to drunkenness,
• not violent but gentle,
• not quarrelsome,
• not a lover of money.
• 4 He must manage his own family well and
• see that his children obey him with proper respect.
5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.
8 Deacons,
likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11 In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12 A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.
By way of conversation starters... how about these?
WHAT ELDERS ARE & DO:
Acts 20:17-31
17 From Miletus, Paul sent to Ephesus for the elders of the church. …
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.
Acts 14:23
23 Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.
1 Peter 5:1-4
5:1 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers-not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.
1 Tim 5:17-20
17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching *. 18 For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages." 19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20 Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.
1 Tim 4:14
14 Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.
James 5:14
14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.
Eph 4:11
11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors* and teachers,
* NT:4166
poimen (poy-mane'); of uncertain affinity; a shepherd (literally or figuratively):
Acts 11:27-30
27 During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.) 29 The disciples, each according to his ability, decided to provide help for the brothers living in Judea. 30 This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.
Acts 21:17-19
17 When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly. 18 The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. 19 Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
QUALIFICATIONS:
Titus 1:5-9
5 The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. 6 An elder must be
• blameless,
• the husband of but one wife,
• a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
7 Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be
• blameless-not overbearing,
• not quick-tempered,
• not given to drunkenness,
• not violent,
• not pursuing dishonest gain.
8 Rather he must be
• hospitable,
• one who loves what is good,
• who is self-controlled,
• upright,
• holy and
• disciplined.
9 He must
• hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught,
so that he can
• encourage others by sound doctrine and
• refute those who oppose it.
1 Tim 3:1-13
3:1 Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task.
2 Now the overseer must be
• above reproach,
• the husband of but one wife,
• temperate,
• self-controlled,
• respectable,
• hospitable,
• able to teach, see endnote 1
• 3 not given to drunkenness,
• not violent but gentle,
• not quarrelsome,
• not a lover of money.
• 4 He must manage his own family well and
• see that his children obey him with proper respect.
5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.
8 Deacons,
likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11 In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12 A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.
Tags: authority, elder, elders, leadership
Views: 76
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Knox on -
Steve,
The translations are my own. My suggestion for those who do not know Greek or Hebrew is to read as many different translations as possible. Then, if something doesn't seem to mesh with other Scripture passages, then study it more intently, or ask someone who does know Greek or Hebrew, or start learning the original languages. You'll be surprised how much Greek or Hebrew you can learn on your own - and how quickly.
I intended the following paragraph in my previous comment to cover those other verses:
"Also, we should make a distinction between the eleven apostles and Paul, and other believers, including elders. It does seem that these twelve were given certain "authority" or "rights" that we never see transferred to others - even other apostles such as Timothy, Titus, Barnabas, etc."
I'll also add this: Even though Paul had authority, he did not like to exercise that authority. I think we can see that in the passages that you've quoted.
-Alan
Steve OKC said:Hi Alan.
Which translations would you recommend for those verses you referenced, if not the NIV? I'd be interested to know which ones you rely on. I'm always interested in better scholarship.
Jesus did make clear that leadership in his kingdom was NOT to be done as the gentile rulers (e.g. Rome), by force and imposition. Rather, leadership was to be done like Jesus through serving, laying down one's life for others.
Also, what about the other verses?
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Permalink Reply by Miguel on -
I am still interested in why episkope is used in the passage and what special meaning it carries. Anyone?
Michael said:It is interesting to me that in 1 Timothy 3:1 “The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task,” uses the word “office” (episkopē) distinct from the normal use of “elder,” (episkopos). There seems to be an implication that apart from being an Elder, there is also an existing structure, namely the office itself.
This word (episcope) is used several other times in the New testament as well: Luke 19:44, Acts 1:20, and 1 Pet 2:12 where it is rendered either visitation or Bishoprick. In either case the root definition carries with it the idea of authority, management, or judgment.
Likewise in 1 Tim 3:8 there is a distinction from the word Deacon (Diakonos) and the office of a Deacon (diakoneo) in 3:10. Again, this implies an office or structure that was already in place during the writing. To be fair, there are 32 other uses of this word in the New Testament where it is rendered either, “minister,” “ministered,” “serve,” “administration,” and “office of a Deacon.” The implications of those passages do not suggest authority per se, but ministry on an equal level. I can not in good conscience say that a deacon has any authority over anyone else in the body other than the natural leadership that is grown from following Jesus words “Mar 10:43 But whoever would be great among you must be your servant.” Being great or noticeable is derived from service alone.
These ideas are not set in stone, as I am still flushing them out. However, I would enjoy your feedback.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Knox on
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Michael,
The word group that includes episkpeo (verb), episkopos (masculine noun), and episkope (feminine noun) relate to watching carefully over something or someone. They can be used of officers watching over soldiers, or even of shepherds watching over sheep. You have to look in the context to determine what or who is being watched. By the way, the verb is used for the responsibility of all believers in Hebrews 12:14-15 -
"Pursue peace and sanctification with all - without which no one will see the Lord - watching carefully (episkopeo) lest anyone misses the grace of God..."
So, episkopeo is the verb form - "to watch carefully". Episkopos (masculine noun) would designate someone who watches. And, episkipe (feminine noun) would refer to the act itself: "watching over". If you want to use the term "oversee", then the verb would be "to oversee", the masculine noun episkopos would be "overseer", and the feminine noun would be "oversight". I don't like the English word "oversee" for the episkopeo word group because in English "oversee" connotes authority. The episkopeo word group could include someone of authority, but its not built into the word, per se. It would have to be derived from the context.
To see another example of how this works, here is the diakoneo word group: diakoneo (verb) is "to serve"; diakonos (masculine noun) is "one who serves" or "servant"; diakonia (feminine noun) is "the act of serving" or "service".
So, the base definition of episkope is "the act of watching over". However, as with English words, words sometimes have more than one definition. Thus, episkope also means "visitation", but that's a completely separate meaning from "the act of watching over". The two meanings may have originally derived from a common point, but trying to determine what that is would be speculation.
I hope that helps.
-Alan
Michael said:I am still interested in why episkope is used in the passage and what special meaning it carries. Anyone?
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Permalink Reply by Katie Mather on -
I know that I am joining in an old discussion, but here are a couple of thoughts that I had while reading all of your comments.
Michael, Tim and I have a healthy relationship with our grown children. We nurture them as adults and they are very responsible people. They do come to us from time to time to discuss with us areas in which they could use our input from our years of experience. We give recommendations and strong suggestions. They are likely able to be persuaded by our guidence because of our relationship with them. They know we are not here to control them or usurp their own responsibility. I could never imagine giving them a "command or order." It would be degrading to their maturity and I would be treating them as little children.
I see this is how elders are to function. Granted, not all believers are mature and can be guided in this way. But treating people as if they need to be ordered and commanded will produce more rebels than disciples.
The other thought that comes to mind is a discussion I had with Dr. Lynn Reddick (he is on the video on the Simplechurch.com home page). We were in a discussion about that scripture, Hebrews 13:17, really saying, "allow yourselves to be persuaded by those who guide you." When the Bible was translated by King James' boys, scripture was flavored to reflect King James' heirarchal system. Even after the reformation, translations were in support of the church's clergy/laity heirarchy.
Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a translation that more closely reflects the organic nature of the early church, rather than supporting the heirarchy of earthly kings and priests?!
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Permalink Reply by John Bennett on -
Alan:
I have. 1Ti3 & Tit1 - "having faithful children." That actually means to have saved, born-again, believing children. One cannot be an elder until he has believing children. One can be an obedient believer and his children are still not yet saved.
There is more.
-john
Alan Knox said:If 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1 list "qualifications", then we would have no elders, because no one would be qualified: no one is blameless. Instead, I think 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1 list characteristics. These should be characteristics of all followers of Jesus Christ.
I see elders functioning as "examples" for other believers. They are selected (recognized) by others for their service to others (Matt 20:25-27) and their Christ-like character (1 Tim 3, Titus 1). "Leaders" in the scriptural sense do not try to force, coerce, or even persuade others to follow or submit. Following and submitting is a function of the one following, not the one leading. When the church recognizes leaders (elders), then it helps us all know who to look to as examples and who to go to for advice.
By the way... after much searching, I have found no scriptural requirements for elders/pastors/bishops that are not also scriptural requirements for ALL believers.
-Alan
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Permalink Reply by John Bennett on
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Maybe the premise is in error. "Obey" doesn't mean that the "them that have th rule over you" are arogantly issuing orders. Jesus is "meek and lowly, riding on a colt" and yet He is King! To be "obeyed." No one who is truly an elder would ever issue orders. It's simply not the way of a humble, lowly, servant. However, such a spiritual person, a truly, fully qualified elder, should be watched to hear and see what God is saying through them. The law wasn't spoken with thunderings, the SPirt, like a dove, whispers into our ears.
-john
Katie Mather said:I know that I am joining in an old discussion, but here are a couple of thoughts that I had while reading all of your comments.
Michael, Tim and I have a healthy relationship with our grown children. We nurture them as adults and they are very responsible people. They do come to us from time to time to discuss with us areas in which they could use our input from our years of experience. We give recommendations and strong suggestions. They are likely able to be persuaded by our guidence because of our relationship with them. They know we are not here to control them or usurp their own responsibility. I could never imagine giving them a "command or order." It would be degrading to their maturity and I would be treating them as little children.
I see this is how elders are to function. Granted, not all believers are mature and can be guided in this way. But treating people as if they need to be ordered and commanded will produce more rebels than disciples.
The other thought that comes to mind is a discussion I had with Dr. Lynn Reddick (he is on the video on the Simplechurch.com home page). We were in a discussion about that scripture, Hebrews 13:17, really saying, "allow yourselves to be persuaded by those who guide you." When the Bible was translated by King James' boys, scripture was flavored to reflect King James' heirarchal system. Even after the reformation, translations were in support of the church's clergy/laity heirarchy.
Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a translation that more closely reflects the organic nature of the early church, rather than supporting the heirarchy of earthly kings and priests?!
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