Can a discussion board thrive without controversy? The AHA! moment.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lois Pettit on January 2, 2009 at 11:40pm

Thanks again, Miguel, for the idea to share what God is doing in reality in our everyday lives. I love a chance to share that, as opposed to wrangling about whose ideas may be right or wrong. Isn't it awesome to be able to share how the power of God is changing us and those around us?

Another AHA moment was at the house church conference when Paul talked about how we are only to do what we see the Father doing, just as Jesus did. Having been raised in a performance based religion and learning to be free from so much, that was another big layer of letting all of that go. I don't have to meet every need in ministry that is out there, (which at one point in my life contributed to making me physically ill.) My biggest need is to be so close to the Father's heart that I do His bidding. Nothing more, nothing less. That was a beautiful moment when that truth came home to my heart!!!

Blessings to all....

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Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on January 3, 2009 at 12:55am

Ahhhh, you were there, too, Lois (at the H2H conference)?

I was there to help with some practical stuff, but made sure to sneak in to hear Paul talk ... the highlight of my weekend!

He and his book have been a huge resevoir of AHA moments in my walk ... back in '07 he came to our house, to speak about this new book he'd written ... before it even got onto Amazon.com (we got to be the first stop on his book tour, LOL!) ... it was great fun to sit around in a circle, listen to him share, and feel all the lids popping off the boxes in my head!

Another highlight at the conference for me was to hear Neil Gamble say, "you know when you hear those 'too good to be true' thoughts in your head, and you think, 'nah, that couldn't be God!'...? Why not? Why wouldn't that be God?"

That worked in beautiful concert with Paul's 3 (or was it 4?) talks.


Like Patrick, I don't fear controversy ... I'm so grateful to the folks in my life who've dared to say things that got me thinking differently than the current rut I happened to be in. Even when I initially balked, or chaffed, or even ridiculed, I now see that it was used by God to woo me more to Himself, more into the truth He has to give me.

I've learned to not ridicule anymore, but to keep my mind and heart open to the possibility that He could be the one behind the challenging thought ... and I know I can trust Him to show me what's of Him, and what's not.

I've lost the fear ... somewhere along the way perfect Love snuck in.

Shalom, Dena

Lois Pettit said:

Thanks again, Miguel, for the idea to share what God is doing in reality in our everyday lives. I love a chance to share that, as opposed to wrangling about whose ideas may be right or wrong. Isn't it awesome to be able to share how the power of God is changing us and those around us?

Another AHA moment was at the house church conference when Paul talked about how we are only to do what we see the Father doing, just as Jesus did. Having been raised in a performance based religion and learning to be free from so much, that was another big layer of letting all of that go. I don't have to meet every need in ministry that is out there, (which at one point in my life contributed to making me physically ill.) My biggest need is to be so close to the Father's heart that I do His bidding. Nothing more, nothing less. That was a beautiful moment when that truth came home to my heart!!!

Blessings to all....

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Permalink Reply by Lois Pettit on January 3, 2009 at 11:25am

Claudia, I loved your AHA moment about the chicken!! Learning to listen to the spirit and then walking it out in blessing other people in a practical way, to me, is what the new testament believers did that set them apart from everyone else. Where is that scripture....."Look how they loved one another." ? As Mark said, we are learning to move as the wind moves as we hear the Spirit's voice, as He is the great and mighty wind.

Yes, Dena, there were many AHA moments at the conference. I am thinking I probably saw you around there somewhere! I think Paul's words affect us so much because of the depths he had gone to in order to learn the incredible love and grace of our Lord. So many things he shared touched me deeply. I'm sure you will treasure the things he shared in your living room. Those were personal and probably even more touching as I'm sure they dealt with something in the conversation that was real to you. God has changed a lot of my thinking over the last few years. As God opens the door for me to share with others those AHA moments, I love sharing them as well. Sometimes it takes months before He opens that door, however.

I agree with Claudia, Miguel. Share some more of yours!! And surely there are others that have some stirring in their hearts that they can share that won't bring about controversy. God has done many many things in our lives besides change our doctrinal position on things. Can we use this thread to talk about those? That would be wonderful!!!

May the incredible Spirit of our Lord Jesus Christ bless you all this day....and maybe even give you an AHA moment! :-)

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Permalink Reply by Miguel on January 3, 2009 at 12:57pm

It seems that like a great cruise, this thread is taking on passengers slowly and the engine is beginning to heat up. Looking forward to more joining us on this journey and continuing to share their AHA moments.

On that note I will share another. Many years ago a friend told me that he had an encounter with God where His presence was so overwhelming that he asked God to "back off" because he felt like he was going to die in the presence of such holiness. I thought about that for some time and one day, while feeling spiritually sensitive, I asked the Lord about that because in pea brain I didn't see the purpose in it and thought it might have just been a case of bad pizza or the like.

Well, the Lord didn't answer my prayer verbally or through words to my mind, but He began to pour out His presence on me, in me, and around me in an unusually powerful way. At first it was sheer ecstasy. Then it soon turned into what was almost like pain, but not. I recognized the profound distinction between absolute holiness and my lack there of. Then it became unbearable and I asked the Lord to "back off or I will die."

The encounter's lasting effect was being able to "smell" in a sense when the Lord was near and choose in each moment to engage HIM or back off. Sometimes its a hard decision because I remember the pain and the ecstasy simultaneously. When I choose to engage, it invariably leads to another AHA moment.

May I always be brave enough to engage... by His Grace

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Permalink Reply by Patrick on January 3, 2009 at 12:59pm

The end of 2007 and most of 2008 was an "AHA" year for me. I will share a small bit of my Aug 2007 AHA experience. I will skip the long testimony part and the events that lead up to an event called Heart Change one weekend. It was there that God used vivid word picture imagery to help me see the walls that I built around myself as a protection mechanism. The "AHA" was when He came and discussed the walls with me. (This was done as a proxy with an actual person) I built a wall of shoe boxes and labeled the things that stood between me and God and I was on one side and God was on the other to symbolize the barrier.
In the exercise people would confess to God those items and remove them one by one then at the end knock the wall down. My wall was not much higher or different than any other persons and I discussed with God (who happened to be female) the boxes. She told me that there was one box missing? The box was forgiving myself. I could not knock it down...... Then the strangest thing, I had already seen several of these events going on in the room with people knocking down walls, repenting , confessing and reconciling, it was amazing. I just couldn't knock down that one brick. I told God that if I did it was just to complete the exercise. Then He/she did something that "shocked" me to the core. She came around the wall sat by me and said:" let's do it together" ( I am crying as I type this now reliving it) God spoke to me in a way that Theologically was not possible to me, not to mention a female was involved.
My "AHA" was that God the Father loved me and would do that and my wall of exponential knowledge of who the Father is as a PAPA God became real. I thought that He could not look upon me/us unless He saw Jesus...as that was so indoctrinated into my being from early church upbringing that it affected my relationship with Him. I always thought He was dissapointed in me.
NOT SO....HE knows me,just as I am.

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Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on January 3, 2009 at 1:23pm

Claudia said:

Dena, I take it that the moment of discovering you "lost your fear" was a truly great AHA moment!? :)

Not so much a moment of AHA, but a slow dawning realization ... more like, "I'll be darned".

My reaction to certain things, certain thoughts, is changing ... I'm experiencing it more as a process, than a moment.

Shalom, Dena

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Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on January 3, 2009 at 1:32pm

Lois wrote:

Yes, Dena, there were many AHA moments at the conference. I am thinking I probably saw you around there somewhere!

You may very well have ... I was everywhere at once -- and your photo looks familiar to me. My husband ran the bookstore cash register, so I was with him there, behind the table a good while ...( I was surrounded by 8 children at various points, including an almost-2 year old ... I'm a wee woman with long dark hair, and I was wearing "gypsy" skirts that weekend).

We likely schmoozed about books, as I was foisting them...!

I love how we get what we need (back to the AHA moments) ... that God is always speaking always revealing, always teaching ... it was always there, only we couldn't see 'til we could see. I believe He's at work, massaging (or chipping) away our resistanc to Him, to His truth, until one day, there's a crack in our resistance, and we can see a bit ... the crack widens, allowing in more Light, and then it feels like a "voila" moment. The joy! As if we were the first one on the planet to experience such a miracle...! And when it lines up with other aspects of truth, as if it were a missing puzzle piece, and we can suddenly see a bigger picture -- what ecstasy! And to find another, who sees what we're seeing ... such a deep connection of gratitude and fulfillment!

Shalom, Dena

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Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on January 3, 2009 at 1:39pm

(((Oh Patrick!)))

My own emotions are all over the place as I read this ... intense joy, gratitude ... deep longing ... grieving for things & relationships, lost ... things hoped-for that are no more (grieving my dashed expectations more than reality) ... trust for whatever it is He has instead ... and treasuring what was, for a season, what it meant, what God did, what He's doing ... what's been done.

I love your experience, that God met you right there -- even behind your wall! ... I love what He did for you, what He's doing in you.

So much emotion...!

Shalom, Dena

Patrick said:

The end of 2007 and most of 2008 was an "AHA" year for me. I will share a small bit of my Aug 2007 AHA experience. I will skip the long testimony part and the events that lead up to an event called Heart Change one weekend. It was there that God used vivid word picture imagery to help me see the walls that I built around myself as a protection mechanism. The "AHA" was when He came and discussed the walls with me. (This was done as a proxy with an actual person) I built a wall of shoe boxes and labeled the things that stood between me and God and I was on one side and God was on the other to symbolize the barrier.
In the exercise people would confess to God those items and remove them one by one then at the end knock the wall down. My wall was not much higher or different than any other persons and I discussed with God (who happened to be female) the boxes. She told me that there was one box missing? The box was forgiving myself. I could not knock it down...... Then the strangest thing, I had already seen several of these events going on in the room with people knocking down walls, repenting , confessing and reconciling, it was amazing. I just couldn't knock down that one brick. I told God that if I did it was just to complete the exercise. Then He/she did something that "shocked" me to the core. She came around the wall sat by me and said:" let's do it together" ( I am crying as I type this now reliving it) God spoke to me in a way that Theologically was not possible to me, not to mention a female was involved.
My "AHA" was that God the Father loved me and would do that and my wall of exponential knowledge of who the Father is as a PAPA God became real. I thought that He could not look upon me/us unless He saw Jesus...as that was so indoctrinated into my being from early church upbringing that it affected my relationship with Him. I always thought He was dissapointed in me.
NOT SO....HE knows me,just as I am.

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Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on January 3, 2009 at 1:41pm

How beautiful and powerful, Miguel!

I love that -- the "smell"...!

We do get heightened ... He does invite us to engage.

Shalom, Dena

Miguel said:

It seems that like a great cruise, this thread is taking on passengers slowly and the engine is beginning to heat up. Looking forward to more joining us on this journey and continuing to share their AHA moments.

On that note I will share another. Many years ago a friend told me that he had an encounter with God where His presence was so overwhelming that he asked God to "back off" because he felt like he was going to die in the presence of such holiness. I thought about that for some time and one day, while feeling spiritually sensitive, I asked the Lord about that because in pea brain I didn't see the purpose in it and thought it might have just been a case of bad pizza or the like.

Well, the Lord didn't answer my prayer verbally or through words to my mind, but He began to pour out His presence on me, in me, and around me in an unusually powerful way. At first it was sheer ecstasy. Then it soon turned into what was almost like pain, but not. I recognized the profound distinction between absolute holiness and my lack there of. Then it became unbearable and I asked the Lord to "back off or I will die."

The encounter's lasting effect was being able to "smell" in a sense when the Lord was near and choose in each moment to engage HIM or back off. Sometimes its a hard decision because I remember the pain and the ecstasy simultaneously. When I choose to engage, it invariably leads to another AHA moment.

May I always be brave enough to engage... by His Grace

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Permalink Reply by Connie on January 5, 2009 at 10:37pm

To sail through each day in perfect sync with nature,
when nothing seems out of place,
when you are at the right place at the right time,
when people you need or who need you are planted in your path,
peace amid trials.
When you reach the end of a day and no one was hurt or killed, because I prayed for safety.
Little coincidences.
feeling the spirit in prayer.
being able to see the AHA in simple things, like a loving moment with a child
teaching moments
a sunrise or sunset
the constant feeling that God is near
surprises of the spirit
enough big AHA's to get your attention and keep it.
a prayer answered
a prayer prayed
singing and feeling a hymn
a meaningful conversation
connecting
healing
family
specifically, I've had a few AHA moments that have proven how close committees on earth work with committees in heaven, and just how close we live to the angels.
I remember one youth meeting I attended (as a youth leader), when all the youth came to the meeting prepared. We invited the Savior in a special prayer, to be with us, and as the meeting came to a close, He entered (not that His spirit hadn't been there during the meeting). We all felt his presence. No one wanted to leave, I wanted to stay seated and feel what I was feeling for as long as I could. It was one thing to feel it, but quite another to have the speaker acknowledge it, and have everyone else in the congregation feel it too. Some more than others, but everyone felt something. That experience taught me a lot about prayer, and of how serious Jesus takes it when we invite Him into our meeting, or home, or event.

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Permalink Reply by Connie on January 10, 2009 at 12:43am

I keep trying to provide you with a little controversy, to keep the conversation going:)
I forgot to acknowledge your AHA moments in my enthusiasm though, so I just wanted you to know I read the posts in this thread and was moved. I agree with Claudia though, that it is the controversy that keeps the interest. It is good to know that AHA moments can come to people of all religions. At least Christian religions. Has anyone heard of Jewish or Muslim or alternative religion AHA's.

I try to watch for AHA moments, and believe I see them regularily. I would feel abandoned if I didn't. If there is anything that bugs me it is when a person responds "well, way back when"..... It makes me wonder, why not now?

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Permalink Reply by michael on August 23, 2009 at 10:28pm

The following story is not my most recent AHA moment (which occurred yesterday as I saw once more how sincerely loving and appreciative my 15-year-old mentally retarded son [operating at a two-year-old level] is). But it is one of my BIGGEST! Please forgive the length, but hopefully the "pay-off" for reading this story will be worth the time and effort:

Please allow me to describe a scene for you. It was Yom Kippur (the Jewish Day of Atonement) Sept. 18, 1999 in the evening. In Jerusalem, Israel. You'll perhaps remember that the Jewish "day" actually begins at sundown the evening before the dawn of the designated day. So, although Yom Kippur might have been marked on non-Jewish calendars as Sept. 19, it really began the previous evening.

Anyway, our congregation, Roeh Yisrael, like most Jewish congregations, held special evening services with a traditional liturgy. But we are Messianic, … we follow Jesus.

After the service, which ended at 8:30pm, a group of us believers, Jew and Gentile (I am a Gentile Christian), went to the Western Wall in the Old City of Jerusalem, about a half hour's walk away. Since it was going to be a late night, I had to stop off at my apartment on my way to the "Kotel" (the [Western] Wall) to drop off my tired wife and children before heading on. So I had left the kehillah (congregation) slightly earlier than the rest of the group.

Now I want you to imagine what it looks and sounds like in west Jerusalem where we lived from 1998-2003 -- a teaming modern city -- on this holiest of all the Jewish holidays. It is completely quiet except for an occasional low voice from the strollers-by who, because there is no vehicular traffic, have taken over the streets. It's similar to those winter mornings back in the United States after a heavy snow has fallen and all is still and silent save the muffled sounds of some kids sledding down a hill in the distance.

Only there's no snow!

During Yom Kippur many religious Jews dress completely in white, except a few die-hards still wearing black and white. Either way, people are usually dressed in finery, but the mood is somber, not festive. All this I noticed on my way from Roeh Yisrael to my home, then from my home to the Kotel.

When I arrived at the Wall, there were maybe a couple of thousand people milling about the well-lit plaza leading down to the partitioned area nearest to the section of the retaining wall constructed by King Herod's workers for the temple. The Wall itself is not part of the ancient temple, which was completely destroyed by Roman legions under general Titus in 70 A.D. However, the only vestige remaining of the huge temple complex (it had been like an indoor/outdoor mall larger than five football stadiums!) is this section of retaining wall. Because of its association with the temple--though not being part of the temple proper--the Kotel is the holiest Jewish site in Israel. In the world, for that matter. It is designated only for prayer and synagogue services.

Some people, outside the partitioned area, had brought sleeping bags or blankets to camp out on the cold stone ground of the plaza. Some were clustered together discussing various subjects related to the Torah (Law) or other aspects of Judaism. There was little revelry. Tour groups--Jewish, Christian, and other--in various languages gathered quietly to witness the spectacle. There remained a sense of hush and awe about the place.

Yom Kippur is one of seven "designated times" mentioned in Lev. 23:

"The tenth day of this seventh month is Yom-Kippur; you are to have a holy convocation, you are to deny yourself [according to tradition this means one is to act as if he/she is in mourning-- fast, refrain from washing, avoid wearing leather shoes, etc.], and you are to bring an offering made by fire to AD-NAI. You are not to do any kind of work on that day, because it is Yom-Kippur, to make atonement for you before AD-NAI your G-d. Anyone who does not deny himself on that day is to be cut off from his people; and anyone who does any kind of work on that day, I will destroy from among his people. You are not to do any kind of work; it is a permanent regulation through all your generations, no matter where you live. It will be for you a Shabbat of complete rest, and you are to deny yourselves; you are to rest on your Shabbat from evening the ninth day of the month until the following evening" (Lev. 23:26-32 The Complete Jewish Bible).

Since the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D., no Jew has been able to fully keep this commandment because in Jewish law it is forbidden to offer sacrifices anywhere other than the temple. Hence, most Jews today, following rabbinic dictum, try to atone for their sins through prayer, fasting, and acts of charity.

Consequently, no non-Messianic Jew has assurance that his/her sins have been forgiven.

Messianic Jews in general, and Roeh Yisrael in particular, observe Yom Kippur as a reminder to make things right on a personal level between themselves and other people, and between themselves and God--always conscious of the "once-for all" sacrifice of Jesus (Heb. 10:11-18). They also view it as a yearly time to pray in a concerted way for Israel's final redemption with the coming of Messiah (Zech. 12: 9-13:6). This desire to pray together was why our group of Jewish and Gentile believers went to the Kotel.

Since I had apparently arrived before our group, I took a perch on the plaza overlooking the Kotel near the partition to wait for others of my congregation to arrive. From this elevated position I could see a panorama of all the men in the prayer area near the Wall. The women prayed in a different section nearby. I watched as Jewish men from various parts of the world and Israel took part in the centuries-old ritual of praying to God facing this ancient edifice (2 Chr. 6: 36-39). Different traditions of Judaism were represented there-- those from several European sects with their lighter skin and fur or felt hats and long black coats, as well as those Jews whose ancestors never left the Middle East after the Dispersion, but retained their olive complexions, detailed embroidered ceremonial clothing, and haunting synagogue chants. Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and even the not-so-religious were all present together seeking some sort of forgiveness from Almighty God.

Then I saw a member of our congregation--let's just call him Avi--entering the designated prayer area below with his eight-year-old son and his son's young friend. I taught both boys in my Shabbat (Sabbath) school class. As they three were making their way toward the back of the partitioned area, where there is a stone bench, a young orthodox Jew recognized Avi as a Messianic believer. He quickly walked over to Avi and the boys and began shouting at them in Hebrew, telling them that they were not welcome there and to leave at once.

"HABAYITAH!!!...Nu!...HABAYIYAH!!!"

Remember, this is Yom Kippur! The quiet and awe were disrupted as this black coated "haredi" (ultra-orthodox) hounded Avi and the boys with insults and threats.

A crowd of about ten men gathered and Avi's way to the bench was cut off. I began to pray from my perch. I saw another man from our congregation enter in from the lower area and walk over. Finally, Avi smiled, said a few words of explanation, and continued (pushed his way, really...he's about 6 foot six) to the bench where he and the two boys sat down. The young orthodox man, scowling all the while, followed to within about twenty feet of where they were sitting, then began going from group to group of nearby Jewish men explaining that Avi was a Jew who believed that Jesus is the Messiah, and that he shouldn't be at the Wall for such a holy occasion as Yom Kippur. Heads turned toward praying Avi and the boys, their faces showing utter distain. Bands of elementary school-age yeshiva (religious school) boys gathered to gawk at the "freaks” as one might look at monkeys in a zoo.

After about ten minutes of quiet prayer (some of which was for his persecutors -- I could hear because, unbeknownst to him, the place where Avi sat was right below where I was waiting), the Messianic believer and the two boys got up to leave the partitioned area. The same young man was there in a flash, yelling, pointing, and telling them to go home. Avi tried to get past him to leave but the man's voice got louder and the gathering crowd again blocked his way. This time they numbered around thirty. Most of the men were merely inquisitive, but some were siding with the angry haredi.

Things started getting tense.

About that time a stocky guy, who from the way he dressed was not very religious, stood up from a circle of fellow Jews and told the young man that his behavior was disruptive and that the Kotel was legally open for all religions to come and pray. The young orthodox man responded that Hindus and Christians were welcome, but not a Jew who had "become a Christian".

He then suggested that, because he was defending a Messianic Jew, perhaps the big man believed in Jesus himself.

It was as if a switch had suddenly been turned on. Both men were now shouting at the top of their voices. Talk about disruptive! Quite a crowd collected then and the situation looked volatile. Avi and the boys, in the meantime, had quietly slipped away and I could no longer see them. I suppose they left the area altogether.

The drama was now focused on the religious man and the not-so-religious one who were both posturing for a fight. Suddenly the larger man charged the haredi. He connected with a right that brushed by the orthodox Jewish man's ear, and the crowd had to hold him back before he did any more damage. By now about one fifth of the men and boys who had been praying at the Wall gathered to see what was happening. There followed a short period of relative calm when all parties involved seemed to have gained some control, then unexpectedly the stocky man, in apparent response to some comment, made another lunge for the orthodox man, knocking over two or three chairs in the attempt. Again, he was restrained.

By this time several rabbis came forward to arbitrate between the two men. After all, it was Yom Kippur, the holiest night on the Jewish calendar, at the Kotel, the holiest site of the Jewish people! Following much to-do, the young man was told by an older rabbi to leave the area. He therefore left the Kotel, but in an angry huff, no doubt taking his hatred for Messianic Jews, and those who would defend them, with him. The crowd dispersed. The big man then sat back down with his synagogue group. There were a few backslaps and laughs, then they got back to their set prayers. Ten minutes later the police arrived, questioned the stocky man, apparently decided that all was fine, then left. Another ten minutes after that, the big man left the Kotel area as well.

I turned around and saw that the mood had changed on the plaza. People were talking loudly, joking, and discussing the fight instead of the Scriptures. No one I heard actually understood what had happened. Some thought that the young orthodox man was trying to take a photo in the sacred partitioned area. Others propounded their own theories about some other violation of religious law. No one seemed to even know about Avi and the boys. Newcomers were filled in on the happenings of the night. People appeared overjoyed by the evening's "entertainment".

The whole scene seemed rather profane to me.

Whether anyone else on that plaza understood it, I'll tell you what had really happened. I know. That holy night of Yom Kippur, in front of Israel's most religious men and the watching world, the truth had exposed a lie. The light had shone in the darkness, but the people could neither comprehend nor overcome it (Joh. 1:5). A righteous Messianic Jew (along with two young boys), wanting nothing more than to pray quietly for his people's salvation, had been used by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to communicate a message to the heart of Israel. "Religion which replaces Torah-required blood atonement with merely human traditions is ultimately bankrupt." "Forgiveness is found in Jesus." "Truth is found in Jesus." "Peace is found in Jesus."

In fact, the only man I saw down at the Western Wall that Yom Kippur evening that I can be sure came and left with forgiveness, truth, and peace, was Avi.

Shalom from Manila,
--Michael

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