Detoxing from institutionalism
After browsing many of the discussions on SC.com a saying comes to mind. Remember, "You can take the boy out of the country, but it's hard to get the country out of the boy?" Let's put that in the context of Simple Church. You can take a person out of the institution, but its hard to get the instituiton out of the person. From what I am reading on the discussion boards and blogs, it seems as though most everyone has come from an IC background. I don't think I have discovered anybody who says that they have found the Lord in SC/home church/open church/organic church, etc.
When husband Tim left the pastorate to venture out of the matrix into the clergyless world of home church, it took him several years to "detox." Right off, we like so many of you were quick to recognize the abuses of the system. In our discussions with those close to us making the break, we would talk about how church should and should not be. Back in 1994, we didn't know anything about this exodus out of the institution that was taking place. So to distinguish the difference between how church shouldn't be and should be, we started calling what we should be, the "unchurch." Remember the old commercials for 7up, the uncola? We got alot of back lash over that.
Anyhoo, anyone who has read any of the books out there now on this movement out of the IC has discovered the history of the slippery slope the church gathering has taken to institutionalism. But how about us, we the people, the true church? Have you recognized the institutional mentality ingrained in you? Right after we broke up our IC into house churches and stopped having Sunday services, Tim would golf with some of the group leaders on Sunday morning. Lots of times he expected to be struck with lightning for not being in "church" on Sunday morning. But that soon passed as he and the guys would find sweet fellowship just being together out on the links.
It has been 14 years now on our journey out of the institution. We have recognized a process of detoxing from the institutional mentality that is so pervasive. Tim has written on the process of leaving the IC in Escaping Church: A Guide to Life Outside the Institution. (I'm sorry, a shameless plug. But it is available as an ebook at our website, www.timmather.com).
The process for me was easy, painful but easy. As I was healing from abuses in my childhood and life, I recognized the abuses of the church system. It was like a veil was lifted and I was set free from religious bondage in so many ways. It was not so easy for Tim. He is a decendent of Richard, Cotton and Increase Mather, Pilgrim ministers who were influential in the new colonies in the 1600's. Tim's father is a pastor who has served for over 45 years now. Tim says that the IC is in his DNA. For him, leaving the IC was more than a make over. It has been reconstructive surgery.
Since leaving the pastorate, we have helped many to start SC's, but we are still ever mindful of the instutional mindset. That is why it is so easy for me to recognize it in places like this forum.
My question and challenge to you is this. Since leaving the IC, have you recognized the struggle of leaving the institutional mentality behind? I know many who have just taken the institution into the home and call it home church. But simple, organic expressions of the body life of Christ is different. Now, I'm not talking about what you do, but what you think. What has been the inner struggle in leaving the institution behind. How has your world view changed from institutionalism to simple, organic?
I know that this will be different from either end of the clergy heirarchy. Those who served the system will have a different healing path to take coming down from the lofty postiton of clergy. Those of you who are former "lay people" (Forgive me. Whenever I use that term, it always feels like I am using profanity.) also have an institutional mentality and need to be detoxed. By detoxed, I mean it just needs to be let go.
I will leave you with a couple of examples. One former pastor now in house church community told us how difficult is was for him. He said, "I used to be somebody important. People would look up to me. Now I'm just nobody." Some who come from the other end of the IC heirarchal system find themselves suddenly without the restraints of the clergy who used to put them in their place of subordination are now are drunk with power and suppose themselves to be God's man/woman of revelation in the house churches.
These are two extreme examples of how the institutional mentality is still ingrained although the body is not attending the IC. Share with us what has been your emotional struggle or revelation in coming out of the IC. Is your mentality still in the IC? Do you recognize an IC mentality? How have you detoxed from the institution? Have you detoxed from the institution?
I ask you to please be brief and to the point in your sharing. And also please do not respond to others comments as to try to fix them. This is just a place to get real here and hopefully this discussion will be helpful to those who are experiencing the same thing.
I thank you in advance for sharing your story with us.
Katie Mather, DMin. (a former Rev.)
When husband Tim left the pastorate to venture out of the matrix into the clergyless world of home church, it took him several years to "detox." Right off, we like so many of you were quick to recognize the abuses of the system. In our discussions with those close to us making the break, we would talk about how church should and should not be. Back in 1994, we didn't know anything about this exodus out of the institution that was taking place. So to distinguish the difference between how church shouldn't be and should be, we started calling what we should be, the "unchurch." Remember the old commercials for 7up, the uncola? We got alot of back lash over that.
Anyhoo, anyone who has read any of the books out there now on this movement out of the IC has discovered the history of the slippery slope the church gathering has taken to institutionalism. But how about us, we the people, the true church? Have you recognized the institutional mentality ingrained in you? Right after we broke up our IC into house churches and stopped having Sunday services, Tim would golf with some of the group leaders on Sunday morning. Lots of times he expected to be struck with lightning for not being in "church" on Sunday morning. But that soon passed as he and the guys would find sweet fellowship just being together out on the links.
It has been 14 years now on our journey out of the institution. We have recognized a process of detoxing from the institutional mentality that is so pervasive. Tim has written on the process of leaving the IC in Escaping Church: A Guide to Life Outside the Institution. (I'm sorry, a shameless plug. But it is available as an ebook at our website, www.timmather.com).
The process for me was easy, painful but easy. As I was healing from abuses in my childhood and life, I recognized the abuses of the church system. It was like a veil was lifted and I was set free from religious bondage in so many ways. It was not so easy for Tim. He is a decendent of Richard, Cotton and Increase Mather, Pilgrim ministers who were influential in the new colonies in the 1600's. Tim's father is a pastor who has served for over 45 years now. Tim says that the IC is in his DNA. For him, leaving the IC was more than a make over. It has been reconstructive surgery.
Since leaving the pastorate, we have helped many to start SC's, but we are still ever mindful of the instutional mindset. That is why it is so easy for me to recognize it in places like this forum.
My question and challenge to you is this. Since leaving the IC, have you recognized the struggle of leaving the institutional mentality behind? I know many who have just taken the institution into the home and call it home church. But simple, organic expressions of the body life of Christ is different. Now, I'm not talking about what you do, but what you think. What has been the inner struggle in leaving the institution behind. How has your world view changed from institutionalism to simple, organic?
I know that this will be different from either end of the clergy heirarchy. Those who served the system will have a different healing path to take coming down from the lofty postiton of clergy. Those of you who are former "lay people" (Forgive me. Whenever I use that term, it always feels like I am using profanity.) also have an institutional mentality and need to be detoxed. By detoxed, I mean it just needs to be let go.
I will leave you with a couple of examples. One former pastor now in house church community told us how difficult is was for him. He said, "I used to be somebody important. People would look up to me. Now I'm just nobody." Some who come from the other end of the IC heirarchal system find themselves suddenly without the restraints of the clergy who used to put them in their place of subordination are now are drunk with power and suppose themselves to be God's man/woman of revelation in the house churches.
These are two extreme examples of how the institutional mentality is still ingrained although the body is not attending the IC. Share with us what has been your emotional struggle or revelation in coming out of the IC. Is your mentality still in the IC? Do you recognize an IC mentality? How have you detoxed from the institution? Have you detoxed from the institution?
I ask you to please be brief and to the point in your sharing. And also please do not respond to others comments as to try to fix them. This is just a place to get real here and hopefully this discussion will be helpful to those who are experiencing the same thing.
I thank you in advance for sharing your story with us.
Katie Mather, DMin. (a former Rev.)
Tags: abuse, changing, clergy, detox, institutionalism, laity
Views: 16
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Katie Mather on -
Steve, you bring up an interesting point about men. The IC is notorious for being populated by mostly women. And your comment about the men seen there as confused and bored is hillariously perceptive. When we attended the H2H conference in Denver about 3 years ago, I couldn't help notice how it was noticeably, mostly men.
We deduced that since the IC reduces the laity to "sheep," men, inherently kings and leaders sense this and reject the system altogether. Also the heresy of a "spiritual covering" of pastors is a mechanism that strips the authority of husbands in the home and places the pastor in the marriage bed between the husband and wife, another reason why pastors have affairs with the women in the church. They are usurping husbands authority and responsibility as the spiritual covering in the home. Tim has written more on this in Escaping Church. I am interested in seeing what Morrow has to say about Why Men Hate the Church. -
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Permalink Reply by Steve Queen on -
The mentality that we must "recruit and retain" people has been a challenge to really - really - let go of. I'm enjoying the freedom to plant, water and let God bring the increase... to just GO and make disciples... wherever! In fact, we and our friends are going to talk more about getting out of the two houses we've been meeting in and getting around more of their and our friends at THEIR houses. I love the fluidity of the SC lifestyle.
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Permalink Reply by Nik P. on -
I was in a seminar today that examined our automatic preferences, or instinctive loyalty for our own culture, religion or community while interacting with hospital patients. The experience of being in simple church has helped me see through some of the religious pride of the institutional church, listed here.
1) I find I sometimes compare the worst of the other culture / religion to the best examples of my own.
2) I see the abuses of the other group and instinctively contrast it with my group’s graces. (I avoid contrasting our abuses with their graces.)
3) I often note the lack of social concern by others at the point where my own group is most concerned. (I do not immediately see where they show concern that is missing among us.)
4) I see the lack of compassion for the poor among other religious leaders and compare it with such Christians as Mother Teresa, but I do not contrast their noblest examples with our apathetic majority.
5) I frequently contrast the ideal Christianity with the real Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, but I overlook the real contradictions in my own community.
6) I sometimes pit the internal consistency of Christian theology at its best against the visible contradictions of the popular or folk practices of the other faith.
7) I remember the other faith’s tragedies of history while recalling only the wisdom, art and beauty of my own tradition.
When the speaker asked us to share which ones were struggles for us, I told him how simple church has already been critical of these in institutional churches and that I didn't struggle. He smiled and challenged me to rewrite them with “simple church” as my own and “institutional church” as the other. Here is the result:
1) I find I sometimes compare the worst of institutional churches to the best examples of simple churches.
2) I see the abuses of the institutional church and instinctively contrast it with the grace found in simple church. (I avoid contrasting abuses in simple church with graces found in the institution.)
3) I often note the lack of social concern by institutional churches at the point where simple churches are most concerned. (I do not immediately see where institutional churches show concern that is missing among us.)
4) I see the lack of compassion for the poor at growth-oriented churches and compare it with organic churches like Church Under the Bridge; but, I do not contrast Southern Baptist Responders with our stay-at-home majority.
5) I frequently contrast the ideal simple church with the real Protestant, Catholic or Evangelical church but I overlook the real contradictions within the simple church community.
6) I sometimes pit the internal consistency of “being followers of Jesus” against the visible contradictions of the ritual or institutional practices of institutional churches.
7) I remember the institutional church’s tragedies of history while recalling only the wisdom, art and beauty of simple churches.
I asked his source for this list: “Pastoral Counseling Across Cultures” by David Augsburger. The speaker really made me stop and think with this re-write. Which ones are a struggle for you? -
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Permalink Reply by Katie Mather on
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When I consider your list, which by the way is very thought provoking, you can see how we in the SC can become just as abusive or intolerant and as exclusive as the IC.
What came to my mind are the characteristics of a healthy nurturing family as opposed to the characteristics of a dysfunctional family. These are from Dr. Tim Sledge's Making Peace With Your Past: Help for Adult Children of Dysfunctional Families.
A Dysfunctional Family...
1. focuses its attention of an emotional needy family member.
2. places limits on the expression of feelings.
3. discourages open talk about obvious problems.
4. permits destructive roles for the children in the family.
5. fails to provide appropriate nuture for developing children.
6. is closed to the outside world.
7. tears down self-esteem by transferring shame through:
-teaching that feelings are not important.
-members losing perspective on what is normal.
-failing to develop a strategy of problem solving for relational amd emotional issues.
-permitting unhealthy survival roles.
-failing to nurture one another.
-parents attitude of shame toward life can teach a child shame.
-children feeling shame for parents problems.
-emotional enmeshment.
-family secrets.
-abuse.
-unresolved traumatic events.
-a failure to validate needs and feelings.
So whether we are in IC or SC these characteristics should be addressed. We learned these dysfunctions in our family of origin. They hinder our ability to have relationship. We take them from one family unit to the next unless they are addressed. We need to identify our problems and do something about them, whether IC or SC.
What comes to mind is # 3 - Discourages open talk about obvious problems. We can all see how generally this is the norm for most ICs. But we need to be conscious of our relational "dysfunctions."
I often refer to this quote from the movie, Heartbreak Ridge when gunnie Hightower instructs the recruits to overcome, adapt and improvise. In order to do this in any situation, we need to be aware of our vulnerabilities and inabilities. We especially need to be aware of how we do need each other and adapt a more team approach to life. In order to do this we need to guided by the greatest command to love God with all our heart, soul and mind and others as our selves. -
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Permalink Reply by Birgit on -
Hi Nik,
what you shared about the seminar you took is a great post. I agree completely.
Birgit -
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Permalink Reply by Cynthia D. Lawson on -
I feel like attacking the church as an institution is unbiblical, maybe as an organization is more appropiate. God-inspired insituions such as marriage and the church are being attacked from all sides. It should nor come from within the church community. I do embrace the back-to-the-Bible basics you promote. Church has become too organized, too complex, but the assembly, whatever, its size is important enough for the Bible to admonish us not to forsake.
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Permalink Reply by Connie on -
(((((Cynthia)))) Yes!
Cynthia D. Lawson said:I feel like attacking the church as an institution is unbiblical, maybe as an organization is more appropiate. God-inspired insituions such as marriage and the church are being attacked from all sides. It should nor come from within the church community. I do embrace the back-to-the-Bible basics you promote. Church has become too organized, too complex, but the assembly, whatever, its size is important enough for the Bible to admonish us not to forsake. -
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Permalink Reply by Daniel on -
I quote from the one who posted, "I'm sorry, a shameless plug."
Yes, you are correct, you were shamless. How close does judgment have to be before men will cease making merchandise of other mens' souls. When will it stop, the selling of the spiritual, that God gives free to all men He wills. The "day of Christ is at hand" The falling away has already occurred and the man of sin, the son perdition has been revealed!
Daniel -
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Permalink Reply by Connie on
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When you say, "the church" I sense you don't know exactly what it means, so how can you ask, or I answer your question? If you want me to answer from my own point of view, I would have to say "yes", the proof being in the step by step process that revelation came from God. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/contents/summary (skip to sections 20,21,22)
http://www.ldsmag.com/gospeldoctrine/dc/090224dc9.html
It was a legal process that complied with the laws in New York.
Marriage and church has been defined as an institution because of the legal implications. They go hand in hand. It is just my opinion, but I think if the institution of marriage is weakened, so is the church, and if the institution of church is weakened, so will marriage. It becomes a moral issue, and one of principles, and an institution is the proper bearer of both. I don't see any such thing in simple church, and that is the main weakness of it. Is there any standard that says "simple church members will comply with this or that?" Some issues that may need a standard are marriage, fidelity, honesty, integrity, God, basically all of the natural laws.
The purpose of religion is to provide a standard to cling to of belief and stability. I agree with everyone here that the institution of Christianity is pretty messed up, but there are a lot of good people and good teachings that should be embraced rather than discarded.
I'm reading a good book right now, "the 5000 year leap" There is a chapter titled "the genius of natural law" that deserves attention. It refers back to Marcus Tillius Cicero, the founding father's favorite expositor of natural law.
connie
Ron Kellington said:Are you saying that the church is a God inspired institution? I thought the church was the Body Christ, the fulness of Him who fills ALL in ALL.... you know, "people" who are individually members of His Body. I can't quite see her being an institution... Is Christ marrying an institution.. No.. He's marrying a beautiful Bride, prepared for Him.
Connie said:(((((Cynthia)))) Yes!
Cynthia D. Lawson said:I feel like attacking the church as an institution is unbiblical, maybe as an organization is more appropiate. God-inspired insituions such as marriage and the church are being attacked from all sides. It should nor come from within the church community. I do embrace the back-to-the-Bible basics you promote. Church has become too organized, too complex, but the assembly, whatever, its size is important enough for the Bible to admonish us not to forsake. -
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Permalink Reply by Connie on
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The Body refers to people but the church holds the necessary principles, ordinances, laws if you must, that are essential to salvation. If simple church can somehow ordain itself to this power, which it says is possible, and believes it has, it's a good movement, but it should not come down so hard against ic for doing the same.
Ron Kellington said:The state may refer to "church" as an institution.. but the Word of God, and our Lord Himself, refers to the Church as a living organism... I suppose the modern humanistic definition refers to an 'institution' ... but the reality is far from it.
The Mystery of Christ is the Church... as our brother Paul so beautifully explains in one of the greatest books ever written about Christ.... Paul's Letter to the church in Ephesus. He wasn't writing to an institution... He was writing to brothers and sisters.. His Body in Ephesus. His Church is His Body here on earth... His Body is not an institution.
Christianity isn't a religion.. it's a relationship. -
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Permalink Reply by Katie Mather on
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It is amazing the left turn this discussion has taken. This was to be a disscusson where people share about their detoxing revelation and now it has become an argument pro and con whether the church is an institution.
Thank you Rick for your definition. I had a response of several hundred words and then I hit a wrong key and lost it all this afternoon. In Escaping Church, Tim uses the phrase, Called Out Ones to replace the word "church."
Connie, if you want to discuss whether or not the church is an institution, please start another discussion.
Folks please limit your discussions to the subject requested.
Share what has been your emotional struggle or revelation in coming out of the IC. Is your mentality still in the IC? Do you recognize an IC mentality? How have you detoxed from the institution? Have you detoxed from the institution?
Obviously Connie doesn't recognize her institutional mentality. Laws? Principles? Ordinances? Wow, if my marriage functioned like that my husband would have a fit! We started our marriage with a declaration of intention to love and a commitment to a relationship. And we have followed through with an expression of that intention.
OK, so one "law" is love God with all your being and others as yourself. Everything in the Kingdom follows and flows from that pattern. Another law is what you sow you will also reap. Forgive your enemies. If you need to receive, then give. If you want to be great in the Kingdom, then be the servant of all. Get my drift? Tim's next book about Kingdom Living is titled, Dancing on the Ceiling: Principles of the Kingdom.
An institutional mentality keeps one from living in Kingdom principles.
Tell me how. -
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Permalink Reply by Cynthia D. Lawson on
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I am just saying to be very careful about trying to demolish the local church. The church has reference in scriptures as both living organizisms i.e. body, bride) and inanimate objects (i.e. buildings) Semantics seems to permeate from hurt or sour grapes more than from relationship. The very operation, work, and authority under which Paul came to the Lord, wrote most of the New Testament, and devoted himself to the "organization" of the early church as instructed in the scriptures in Eph 4 and 1 Cor. 12 contradicts the dismantling of the local church. The purpose of the church is to operate as an organizm to build up, edify, and bring wonderful powerful glory to Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
How can one fight it. Jesus, himself, told his disciples when they complained of others preaching in his name to leave them alone and Paul said that nevertheless Christ is being preached (Someone will be saved that's how powerful God's Word is. It became flesh and dwelt among us! It is preached in pulpits all over the world! Men and women are saved! God said not one of His words would fall to earth void! Maybe I am missing your point. I just don't see the merit of your argument. As King David said in Psalm, "I will not consider matters too great for me." I am sorry if I introduced anything in the blog that was off the subject. I am not a regular blogger. This knda feels like the hppies' anti-establishment movement.
Can't those who feel they need to operate outside the IC church just do so by building on whatever freedom they feel and not knock the IC????
Ron Kellington said:The state may refer to "church" as an institution.. but the Word of God, and our Lord Himself, refers to the Church as a living organism... I suppose the modern humanistic definition refers to an 'institution' ... but the reality is far from it.
The Mystery of Christ is the Church... as our brother Paul so beautifully explains in one of the greatest books ever written about Christ.... Paul's Letter to the church in Ephesus. He wasn't writing to an institution... He was writing to brothers and sisters.. His Body in Ephesus. His Church is His Body here on earth... His Body is not an institution.
Christianity isn't a religion.. it's a relationship. -
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