how important is unity?
John 17 seems to be the last thing to be restored. It was the first thing that the early church was filled with. How can we ignore unity?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on -
Bless you Bill ... I see it as you do ... and you articulated it beautifully!
Shalom, Dena
-
Permalink Reply by Bill Benninghoff on -
Excellent post Katie. I think you are right that Paul's exhortations to be of the same mind were aimed at people within a small fellowship of relationally committed believers.
Bill
Katie Mather said:It seems as though the division you are talking about is between groups, from group to group, denomination to denomination. But let me take it a step further.
From what you just shared, Andrew,
Marking them so that others would avoid them. Notice also the word "cause divisions" mentioned here. It is the result of their behavior and words that "cause" offences and division. Division is "contrary to the doctrine which you have learned." Paul goes on and further instructs his brother Titus that he should, "Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." (Titus 3:10-11)
it reminds me of an incidence.
I think that much of the unity that Paul talks about is addressed to the relationships with in the "groups." It is like saying to the siblings in a family, "Come on now, let's all get along." I feel that one important "doctrine" that has been widely over looked or ignored altogether is the doctrine of the fellowship of believers. The being commited to one another as the early church was.
Jesus had the twelve and they had trouble with unity. The larger the group gets, the more difficult it is to unify. How much more difficult to unify several groups. When Paul's letter went out to the various churches or fellowships of Corinth, Galatia, Colossus and to Rome, did those early believers think or know that they were part of a corporate body? Or were they more focused on the body of believers in their area? The directive would have been more understood as a directive of unity to get along with the believers with whom you fellowship. Because before you can ever work on unity of doctrine, there has to be a unity or unifying factor through relationships.
-
Permalink Reply by Bill Benninghoff on
-
Thanks Dena. You and I must be "of the same mind." ;)
Bill
Dena Brehm said:Bless you Bill ... I see it as you do ... and you articulated it beautifully!
Shalom, Dena
-
Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on
-
You're a brave man, Bill Beninghoff...! ;)
Shalom, Dena
Bill Benninghoff said:Thanks Dena. You and I must be "of the same mind." ;)
Bill
Dena Brehm said:Bless you Bill ... I see it as you do ... and you articulated it beautifully!
Shalom, Dena
-
Permalink Reply by andrew zoppelt on -
II don’t know who to reply to, but I am trying to respond to the last 3 or 4. I am not sure we understand unity from our crazy paradigm where we reconcile division as acceptable. It reminds me that most problems don’t come from God’s standards, but man’s standards that they lowered to their level. We speak much of what exist in our experience rather than the heart of the Lord. Division is accepted by almost all, therefore we must justify it. I wonder if that will hold true when God judges man for his work.
I remember reading a book from a man from Japan after world war two. He said that after the war the U.S. occupied Japan and opened the door for the American Missionaries. In came a flood of bibles and missionaries. As they set up their churches and spread their gospel, he noticed that there was no similarity between the bible and the churches. He saw unity in the bible and division in the missionaries. He saw a simple faith and a total centering the person of Jesus, in the missionaries he saw doctrines of all varieties and arguments without end.
We have created so many doctrines that we have lost the center. We now think that doctrinal agreement must prevail… most are just minor doctrines that we hold over the “doctrine” of unity and simplicity and love.
Is there anything anymore that we do is Christian? From replacing repentance with the sinner’s prayer, body ministry with clergy, power for form…
Are we asleep? Can anyone hear? When we substitute our multiple divisions for the heart of Jesus for unity, is that not a cry for us to realize that there is major problems in the church today in America? Where are the five wise virgins, where are the 10,000 that have not bowelled the knee to Baal? Are we just lifting up our accepted practices and justify them? Is the world seeing our unity and love?
1 Thess 1:3-8, “remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love [not doctrine], and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father, knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake. And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit, so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Achaia who believe. For from you the word of the Lord has sounded forth, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place. Your faith toward God has gone out, so that we do not need to say anything.”
Their faith went out, their love was a demonstration of their life of Christ in the surrounding Macedonia and Achaia. If we continue to settle for less, than we can continue to expect less.
-
Permalink Reply by andrew zoppelt on
-
Claudia,
Good, I think it is difficult to think outside of our past boxes and look fully at the heart of Jesus. True, we have had some minor movement toward unity. We try to move on doctrine agreement or we limit unity only groups who agree doctrinally.
I think we are missing this point. I have been focused on this subject some 40 years and have talked to many leaders and challenged by many. I have heard many of the arguments and revalued my situation many times. I never agreed that division is acceptable under any conditions. I am aware that it is going to take those with brokenness, maturity, humility and love to achieve unity. Unity will come and it will be at the cost of many who are not open. I am convinced that the first thing that must be done is that we have to admit that we are holding Jesus’ body in division and we are guilty of sin. We then need to repent and ask God to move on our hearts and that we truly want to restore His body to unity.
I think a formula or another program is not going to work. Jesus will work only when we get back to Him as the center and not doctrine..
-
Permalink Reply by Doug and Donna Spencer on -
To reply to Andrew and Claudia's most recent posts. Andrew, there are some who are listening, those who have ears to hear. As that old saying goes, there are none so deaf as those who will not hear.
This is an interesting tightrope we walk. Yes, unity is of upmost importance, but not at the expense of sound doctrine. Some would argue that you can have one or the other, but not both. I disagree. Unity begins with the centrality of Jesus Christ. Jesus however, was not a uniter, but a divider. Too often people have the mistaken perception that Jesus came to unite all of mankind under the banner of Christianity. That perception is false. If in fact that were true, then why was He so hated and continues to be hated even today? Jesus Himself said that He didn't come to bring peace to the world, but came as a sword, pitting son against father, daughter against mother, etc. (Mathew 10:34).
Following Jesus is not easy in the world. Once again we look to what Jesus said. We often forget what Jesus said happens after we enter by the narrow gate. Getting through the narrow gate would seem to be easier than what comes next, "a difficult path". (Mathew 7:14). Entering through the gate by making a decision to follow Jesus is something that takes place in a single moment in time; but we then spend the rest of our lives on a difficult path once we make that decision. You cannot say you follow Jesus but then accept every human doctrine that comes along.
It is a dangerous road to go down when we attempt to marginalize certain scriptures by attempting to limit them where there was no intent to so limit them. An example of this is when people say that the unity as written by Paul was meant only to apply to your small group and not to beleivers as a whole. This is the same fallacy that I mentioned before, that we create a false sense of unity by first creating uniformity. In other words, we will gather only with those that agree with us, get rid of those who don't, and then we have unity. This is a man-made creation of unity, not one that centers around Jesus Christ, but that of man. If this is what God wanted, then why was Paul admonishing the Corinthian believers to stop gathering under the banner of certain leaders or doctrines? As long as each individual group was in unity, then there would have been no reason for Paul to issue his admonition.
When the true shepherd calls and His sheep recognize His voice I believe that we gather in unity. The sad news is that there will be some sheep who will not hear His voice, and in fact are not hearing His voice today. Will true unity ever come before the return our Lord Jesus Christ? I guess we will find out when that time comes. Perhaps we already have it and just don't know it.
-
Permalink Reply by Doug and Donna Spencer on
-
Claudia, as usual you have said it much better than I could have. God bless you.
-
Permalink Reply by andrew zoppelt on
-
I have been a pastor for over 30 and have a house fellowship for over 10 years, that is not a point of advantage, I only saying I have intensely been involved with unity in every sector. The Lord gave me that burden and I have spent many nights weeping and praying over our divisions. Truly we “have need of nothing.” The subject of doctrine constantly comes up as a block, as though division was sound doctrine. To me doctrine is a Red herring.
List the items that the early church listed as sound doctrine and you will find little of those things on their list. We are not dealing with doctrine, we are dealing with sin. I keep saying this, division is a sin, it is heresy.
So what doctrine is it that we are dividing over: eternal security, the rapture, infant baptism, tithing, communion, head covering, the church building. I never heard Jesus praying for any of these issues. I did hear Him praying for unity. Why? Because division is not Christianity.
Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for majoring in minors… is that not our problem. I think if we all began to come together and admit that division was heresy and repented… maybe the minor doctrines would be revealed. But it is because we refuse to acknowledge our thousands of divisions that we can all do that which is right in our own eyes. We love division; we embrace it and need it to maintain our special groups around our special leaders… how about Jesus’ leadership… He might be important too..
-
Permalink Reply by Miguel on -
I can't help but be "doctrinal" at times, and I suppose that is just the stirring up of the gift of teaching that God has placed in me. There has been a part of me that actually enjoyed controversy and disunity. It is one of the sinful areas that needs constant attention. Lets face it, controversy can be fun, debate can be exhilarating, especially when we gain notoriety for being wise and learned. Sometimes, if we are honest, the victory in intellectual battle can mean more to us than glorifying the Father from whom all wisdom and knowledge flow. The emotion of realizing within ourselves that we could be wrong regarding a particular doctrinal issue can be painful and invoke fear. After all, then what do we do? We have held on to an issue so tightly like a security blanket instead of resting in the One who is our refuge.
That said, I do not want to negate the importance of sound doctrine. We are urged in the scriptures to teach it. Sound Doctrine exists. Therefore Unsound doctrine must also exist.
So that leaves me thinking. Where do we start? With Christology? Do we have to make sure we are worshiping and teaching about the right Jesus? Maybe its Ecclesiology, understanding what the church is. Perhaps its Missiology, understanding the purpose of the church. Or even as some have pointed out on other boards, perhaps its epistemology, after all how are we going to know what's right if we don't know HOW to know.
If those who have ability to teach sound doctrine do it well, then there will be those who also learn sound doctrine. One naturally flows from the other. I would be interested to know where others think the starting point of sound doctrine begins and can you tell me without being doctrinal?
Still working through this and would appreciate your input.
-
Permalink Reply by Bill Benninghoff on
-
Andrew,
I agree that Jesus wants us to be one even as He and the Father are one. (John 17) What does the unity you are envisioning look like? How does it work out on a practical basis? Do you see the multitudes of denominations, independent churches and house groups selecting delegates to send to some kind of super-convention where they all agree on a certain set of doctrines and then work together on various proejcts?
Do you envision churches of all denominations within a certain region coming together for joint worship gatherings or joint evangelistic crusades? Do you envision the churches of a region coordinating in their efforts to help the poor? What does this unity look like to you?
Bill
andrew zoppelt said:I have been a pastor for over 30 and have a house fellowship for over 10 years, that is not a point of advantage, I only saying I have intensely been involved with unity in every sector. The Lord gave me that burden and I have spent many nights weeping and praying over our divisions. Truly we “have need of nothing.” The subject of doctrine constantly comes up as a block, as though division was sound doctrine. To me doctrine is a Red herring.
List the items that the early church listed as sound doctrine and you will find little of those things on their list. We are not dealing with doctrine, we are dealing with sin. I keep saying this, division is a sin, it is heresy.
So what doctrine is it that we are dividing over: eternal security, the rapture, infant baptism, tithing, communion, head covering, the church building. I never heard Jesus praying for any of these issues. I did hear Him praying for unity. Why? Because division is not Christianity.
Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for majoring in minors… is that not our problem. I think if we all began to come together and admit that division was heresy and repented… maybe the minor doctrines would be revealed. But it is because we refuse to acknowledge our thousands of divisions that we can all do that which is right in our own eyes. We love division; we embrace it and need it to maintain our special groups around our special leaders… how about Jesus’ leadership… He might be important too..
-
Permalink Reply by Daniel Lang on -
Miguel said:I can't help but be "doctrinal" at times, and I suppose that is just the stirring up of the gift of teaching that God has placed in me. There has been a part of me that actually enjoyed controversy and disunity. It is one of the sinful areas that needs constant attention. Lets face it, controversy can be fun, debate can be exhilarating, especially when we gain notoriety for being wise and learned. Sometimes, if we are honest, the victory in intellectual battle can mean more to us than glorifying the Father from whom all wisdom and knowledge flow. The emotion of realizing within ourselves that we could be wrong regarding a particular doctrinal issue can be painful and invoke fear. After all, then what do we do? We have held on to an issue so tightly like a security blanket instead of resting in the One who is our refuge.
That said, I do not want to negate the importance of sound doctrine. We are urged in the scriptures to teach it. Sound Doctrine exists. Therefore Unsound doctrine must also exist.
So that leaves me thinking. Where do we start? With Christology? Do we have to make sure we are worshiping and teaching about the right Jesus? Maybe its Ecclesiology, understanding what the church is. Perhaps its Missiology, understanding the purpose of the church. Or even as some have pointed out on other boards, perhaps its epistemology, after all how are we going to know what's right if we don't know HOW to know.
If those who have ability to teach sound doctrine do it well, then there will be those who also learn sound doctrine. One naturally flows from the other. I would be interested to know where others think the starting point of sound doctrine begins and can you tell me without being doctrinal?
Still working through this and would appreciate your input.
Miquel, to put in your words what I have been saying, "where do we start?", I do not give you my opinion (for that is heresias), I give you the understanding of the gospel, Paul, the apostolos. And their understanding originated with Yeshua. We start with Christology, which is the one true gospel, and it is, the Christ, yeshua of Nazareth died for our sins according to the scriptures, He was buried and He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. (Luke 24, 1 Cor 15:-16). This is preaching Christ, preaching the cross, preaching Christ and Him crucidied, and it is from the scriptures of the prophets. And sound doctrine will come forth from the preaching of Christ. The one true gospel is Spirit and true. And there will be love, but there willbe sound doctrine.
It seems to me most of the home church movement I see is just making every man's thoughts his own denomination. So we go from the thousands of divisions to the millions. Despite this "every man making his own Jesus", there still remains sound doctrine, and gifts to the assembly, apostolos, prophets and evnagelists, pastors and teachers, and there is love, even when it is judged wrongly.
Daniel
2010 National House Church Conference
Labor Day Weekend 2010 Dallas, TX
Get the dates in your calendar!
Get the dates in your calendar!
Our Partners
Badge
© 2010 Created by Dale Interactive.
