monergism
Let me preface my remarks by saying how frustrated I am that many times my comments are construed as mean, condemning or argumentative. I am unsure as to how to relate tone in this medium. Please take whatever I say as simple comments or questions. My aim is not to beat anyone over the head with my interpretation of the Bible but to search and seek the truth.
I am writing in response to the sense of hyper-monergism I get from many on this site. Many I have seen seem to be saying that we should just wait for God to move us. We should not strive for righteousness. We should not pursue ministry. Be still. Wait on God.
Do not get me wrong, I believe that the influence of God in our lives (Strong's definition of grace) is of utmost importance and I also believe that we need to be good at being still as part of receiving that influence. Buuuuuuut! Possibly it is because our local group still meets in a building at a regular time on a regular day (Sunday even) or perhaps you are more spiritual than me and the people that I know. I still find myself having to "be stong" in His grace (2 Timothy 2:1), "suffer hardship" (2 Timothy 2:3), "be diligent to present" myself (2 Timothy 2:15), "flee from youthful lusts" (2 Timothy 2:22), "press on in order to lay hold of that which I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus" (Philippians 3:12), "stand firm against the schemes of the devil" (Ephesians 6:10), "take up the full armor of God" (Ephesians 6:13), "walk in a manner worthy" (Ephesians 4:1), be an imitator of God (Ephesians 5:1), "discipline my body" (1 Corinthians 9:27), endure (Matthew 24:13), "be merciful" (Luke 6:36). Maybe you can tell me what I should do with the verse that tells me to work out my salvation (Philippians 2:12), etcetera, etcetera.
When I mention pursuing ministry I am talking about "diakonos," the servant ministry that Jesus spoke of, and certainly not the self agrandizing "ministries" we see so much of.
Peace from the NN's of the Earth,
Mike
Views: 4
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tammie on -
Hi Micheal Ellis,
You've commented on the hyperness of many on this site and filled us in on your belief and practice complete with your interpreted Bible references for back up ... What's your question?
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Permalink Reply by Micheal Ellis Childress on -
Thanks, Tammie:
I did not make that very clear. What part do I play in my salvation? How accountable am I for my righteousness? Many see repentence as just saying, "I'm sorry." Many see God's grace and mercy as an overarching forgiveness ticket and excuse sin by saying, "Well, we are only human. God does not expect us to be holy." Are those right attitudes? Does waiting on God mean we should do nothing until prompted by the Spirit (hyper-monergism)?
Peace from the NN's of the Earth,
Mike
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Permalink Reply by Tammie on
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It seems to me those are questions you already have answered for yourself and are quite sure of your belief. But I'll play along.
Most of us agree that our salvation is through grace alone but some like to split hairs over the sanctification process. It's mainly as you have done, belittle your opponents belief and exalt your own. Do those that are led by the Spirit actually do nothing? Do they just wait? You believe God does not answer specifically. He influences.
C.S. Lewis said "There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way."
I think if someone sincerely says "Thy will be done" and goes about doing good things, asking God to influence from afar, because that is how they believe he operates, His will is done.
I think if someone asks and waits for prompting by the Spirit, because that has been their experience, His will is done.
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Permalink Reply by Micheal Ellis Childress on
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Tammie:
Thanks for playing.
Sure, I am sure of my belief. But, I am honest enough with myself to know that what I believe is not always right. I have been shown truth before and had to change what I believe.
Salvation is indeed through grace alone. I do not think I am splitting hairs. I have been told by many people, not just on this site, that I have no part in my salvation or sanctification. I was asking questions to see how others deal with what I see. I am unaware of any time that I have belittled anyone. Please give me an example and I will apologize to whomever I rendered such disservice.
I do not believe that people that are led by the Spirit do nothing. But, some have said that they do not act until they are led by Him. I question if that is the correct course. I know that I have missed opportunities to serve because I did not "hear from the Holy Spirit."
I believe that at times God is very specific as evidenced in Scripture and I can attest to Him speaking specifically into my life. I do not know if He tells us every move to make. Maybe I am just not listening well.
I totally agree with Lewis and I think I agree with your last two statements also.
Peace from the NN's of the Earth,
Mike
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Permalink Reply by Jim Grubb on -
Mike, I think your perspective may be a little to inward. It's all a matter of focus. In Ephesians 2:10, after Paul tells us that our salvation is by grace (God's favor) and not by our works he tells us that we were saved for the purpose of doing good works. God put the Holy Spirit inside of us, if we are truely saved, to help us and lead us in our endever to do these good works. The basis that motivates us is the "Fruit of the Spirit" God put in us. We sould be expressing these fruits and looking for the need in the people we meet each day and be ready to give hope, encouragement, a kind word, expressing God's love to them in the process. Some may need a hug and some may need a meal or coat or pare of shoe's. You get the picture. We often need to quit argueing over words, get our eye's off ourselves, leave that to God, it's his job, and go out to minister. Always be open to pray with those we minister to, make it our goal. As you grow in confidence God will sometimes use the "Gifts of the Spirit" while you minister. Don't be suprised if while your ministering God speaks to you eather through preception or that "yet small voice" in your inner man and tells you to 'command him/her to be healed in the name of Jesus' or 'devil be gone in the name of Jesus' or you recieve a word of prophecy that will uplift and encourage them.
Much of the problem is that we've been trained to be an audiance oriented church, We come on Sunday morning and sit, Sing a couple of pre-arranged songs not paying attention to what they are saying, Listen to a preacher (teach) on some scripture, political issues of the day or try to resave the congregation again. Where's the encouragement, where's the challenge, or where is the glory for what God has done in the live of the people in the congregation, and where is the personal touch of God on them and His presence. Maybe that's why House Churches and Open Churches are growing so fast in this country and around the world. People need to experiance God and express God.
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Permalink Reply by Micheal Ellis Childress on
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Jim:
I am not sure if my perspective is inward but, my question is.
I agree that we need to go out and minister and in the process we will hear from God. I also agree that we need less religion and more God in our meetings.
My question relates to the scriptures that tell us to make specific changes in our lives. What part do we play in making those changes?
Example: I smoked for 15 years after I started a relationship with God. When He spoke to me about quitting I was not even seeking to do so. I have not had a cigarrette for 11 years. On the other hand, the Word says to pray without ceasing and I find it extermely difficult to do that. I get tired. I get distracted. I get discouraged. Some might argue that smoking is less important than praying. Why did God not give me the strength for that instead? Am I closed off to it? Do I need to learn to do it on my own? Is it my fault or is God just not ready to put me there yet?
Peace from the NN's of the Earth,
Mike
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Permalink Reply by Jim Grubb on
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Mike, The scriptures teach that Jesus is always with us and if we believe that then we know that we can talk to Him whenever we want or need to. Just a short word is often enough but the knowing that He is there makes for constant prayer. We all get buisy and discouraged at times and God knows that so keep talking to Him when you can and you will see the results, eapecially if your praying for others.
Micheal Ellis Childress said:Jim:
I am not sure if my perspective is inward but, my question is.
I agree that we need to go out and minister and in the process we will hear from God. I also agree that we need less religion and more God in our meetings.
My question relates to the scriptures that tell us to make specific changes in our lives. What part do we play in making those changes?
Example: I smoked for 15 years after I started a relationship with God. When He spoke to me about quitting I was not even seeking to do so. I have not had a cigarrette for 11 years. On the other hand, the Word says to pray without ceasing and I find it extermely difficult to do that. I get tired. I get distracted. I get discouraged. Some might argue that smoking is less important than praying. Why did God not give me the strength for that instead? Am I closed off to it? Do I need to learn to do it on my own? Is it my fault or is God just not ready to put me there yet?
Peace from the NN's of the Earth,
Mike
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