Rockets are falling on my town!

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Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on January 3, 2009 at 2:49pm

Yes, that's what I've learned (about Jesus' words) as well, Patrick. Thanks for taking the time to share it (I'm busy watching a 2 yo jump from a table to a bean bag chair ... he's almost perfected the spin-in-mid-air on the way down...!).

I was listening to the radio yesterday, while out running Home Depot/Lowe's errands with Mark (our favorite date-place! so many aisles in which to smooch!), and they were talking about how someone hurled an insult to another, and that broke out into a fist fight, and then someone shot into the air, and then someone threatened to shoot into the crowds ...

and it struck me how it's like a bunch of boys in a playground. Now, I know that girls can be ruthless too ... but their tactics are more about relational exclusions ... two becoming "best friends" and exclusing a 3rd girl. It's a pretty rare thing fo girls to outright attack each other (compared to boys' fistfights).

This is just grown up playground wars ... "you have what I want, and I'm taking it, and you can't stop me"... "no, it's mine, I had it first" "did not" "did too" "did not" did too"... "ok then you asked for it" - POW! ... and there it goes, ever-escalating.

Both sides wanting to take what they see as theirs, both sides treating the other as the enemy while they see themselves as the righteous and wounded one ... demonizing the other, not wanting to understand it from the other's point of view, not wanting to look at their own log, but hyper-focused on the other's splinter ... not operating according to either the former or current covenants, but taking matters into their own hands ... operating by the rules of man, rather than the wisdom of God ...

I mean, when are we going to get it? Violence breeds violence. Retaliations become exponential. For thousands of years, we've ignored God and resorted to violence ... Jesus shows us a better way. While I don't expect those who don't yet know Jesus to grasp His heart, certainly those of us who do know Him can.

Ghandi followed the example and teachings of Jesus, and peace overcame violence. I find that astonishingly miraculous, and yet possible.

When will we follow the Way of Jesus...?

(I ask this of myself, as well)

Shalom, Dena

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Permalink Reply by Paige on January 3, 2009 at 3:05pm

Dena said:
Have we not yet learned that violence never breeds peace?

I think we are still learning. To beat swords into plowshares always involves an element of risk, IMO. One person has to be willing to "go first." When one does this, there is always the risk that they have made themselves vulnerable. To the degree that we trust our life in God's hand, we may be more, or less willing to be vulnerable.

I don't expect anything to happen on a national level, that has not first permeated the personal level. Peace and unity were made by God. Man does not make them, but man does realize them. IMO, we work out to the degree we realize. In the process of working these things out, there is no condemnation, but there is consequence. You made a great point about 400 for 4. I think this is something that we will be learning from as a community. How much is too much?

Patrick said:
I mispoke early about violence and peace. To wipe out Hamas would not bring peace, but it would disable their ability to carry out their agenda. The atom bomb did that to Japan. They were bitter for many years and generations but they could not continue to do evil to the rest of the world. That by definition is not peace. It is control and consequences. Israel will act out of their wounds adn Hamas theirs...It would take miraculous intervention and a faith from both sides to not need human interaction.

I agree. My viewpoint of pacifism is that it allows for self-defense within it. I could be wrong, but its just how I see it. Martyrdom is not something that we are forced into, but rather a personal choice we can make. Every circumstance is a personal one. As a parent, I would protect those in my care from harm. I would not force my children into martyrdom, because I felt it was the right thing for me at the time. Does that make sense?

My husband is a police officer. His job is to "serve and protect." Some cannot reconcile this with being a true follower of Christ, some can. There are definitely many aspects of this topic to explore...

Paige

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Permalink Reply by Paige on January 3, 2009 at 4:56pm

Claudia,

We may not all agree with Sean's response, but we should ALL be in support of him and his feelings right now, trying to encourage him, lifting him up in prayer and encouraging words of support, rather than making him feel like how he feels is stupid and irrelevant. I hope that makes sense...but this is one of those times when someone is in need of "brotherhood" and NOT some stinking debate....

Very true words. I haven't read everything on this thread, but am in prayer for all involved, whatever side. As I said above, no condemnation, and that goes for Sean's feelings as well as the feelings of everyone else.

Paige

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Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on January 3, 2009 at 6:06pm

You're right, Paige -- we're still learning. We have much to unlearn first...

And you're right, Claudia -- Sean needs our prayers, our compassion, our support.

Forgive me, please Sean, for being insensitive, and for using your prayer request as a place to work out my own conflicted emotions about war, about division (I'm the daughter of a retired Army colonel; I spent 20+ years as an "army brat"... I'm the granddaughter of two police officers, one of whom was assassinated. I'm married to a Jewish man, who lost many family members in the Holocaust. I have inlaws in Israel now. I have friends who are Palestinian).

But no matter -- my prayers are with you, Sean, and your family ... protection, provision, preparation, and strong, strong sense of His peace and His Presence...!

Shalom, Dena

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Permalink Reply by Birgit on January 3, 2009 at 9:08pm

Dena,
I have conflicting emotions and even thoughts as well. I like to consider myself a pacifist because that seems the closest to what I think Jesus was, but I could be wrong. Even if I'm not, it's very easy to be a pacifist when nobody threatens me or my family. I have no idea how I would act if they were attacked. Fortunately the answer to this is irrelevant when I pray. I don't have to worry that God feels pressured to do something he did not want to do just because I asked him for it. I think He just wants to know that I care enough to share my heart with him and that I'm willing to fight for what I sincerely believe is right in prayer. His grace covers my errors. Therefor I will continue to pray with confidence for peace but also for justice at the same time, humanly impossible, but easy for God. :)

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Permalink Reply by Sean Steckbeck on January 4, 2009 at 1:45am

Thank you everybody for praying for us!

Its been an intense situation.
Now our troops (IDF) has entered with their army by foot into Gaza.
There are many believing soldiers there.

Although Hamas is launching rockets in other southern and Negev cities, it has not hit Beer Sheva in two days.
We call this a "lull", because it could start again at any time.
For the meantime, we are only bringing those with children up to the center.
Those without children, we will wait if the rockets start launching again on Beer Sheva as they also want to stay in Beer Sheva as long as its quiet.

There are many believers and messianic Jews who serve in the IDF and are in Gaza right now fighting, please pray for their safety.


Hamas is weakening and could possibly be overthrown, according to the recent reports.
This would be a good thing for both Israel and the innocent Palestinians in Gaza who have had mob rule for 18 months since the violent and bloody co-op.

Blessings,

Sean

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Permalink Reply by Bill Benninghoff on January 4, 2009 at 2:25am

Sean,

Glad to hear that you guys are doing ok. We are all continuing to pray for you. I will pray right now:

"Father I ask in Jesus Name that you will protect all the believers in the IDF who are fighting right now in Gaza. Thanks for keeping Sean and his family and all the people in Beersheva safe. Continue to protect them and all the people throughout Israel. I ask that You would thwart any attempts by Hamas to launch suicide attacks within Israel or any other violent reprisals. I ask for Your will and purposes to be accomplished in this situation and I ask for Your Kingdom to be extended to both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Have mercy on the people on both sides of this conflict Father and reveal Your truth and grace to each one of their hearts. Father bring stability and peace to the Palestinian territory and bring peace to Jerusalem and Israel. Amen."

Bill

Sean Steckbeck said:

Thank you everybody for praying for us!

Its been an intense situation.
Now our troops (IDF) has entered with their army by foot into Gaza.
There are many believing soldiers there.

Although Hamas is launching rockets in other southern and Negev cities, it has not hit Beer Sheva in two days.
We call this a "lull", because it could start again at any time.
For the meantime, we are only bringing those with children up to the center.
Those without children, we will wait if the rockets start launching again on Beer Sheva as they also want to stay in Beer Sheva as long as its quiet.

There are many believers and messianic Jews who serve in the IDF and are in Gaza right now fighting, please pray for their safety.


Hamas is weakening and could possibly be overthrown, according to the recent reports.
This would be a good thing for both Israel and the innocent Palestinians in Gaza who have had mob rule for 18 months since the violent and bloody co-op.

Blessings,

Sean

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Permalink Reply by Johnnie on January 4, 2009 at 4:13pm

Zec 4:6 Then he answered and spake vnto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord vnto Zerubbabel, saying, Neither by an armie nor strength, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord of hostes. (Geneva translation)

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Permalink Reply by Lois Pettit on January 4, 2009 at 5:01pm

Everytime I hear something on the news about the war I pray for you and your family, Sean. I can't imagine having to live through something like that, especially with little ones under your care. May the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob meet every need that you have!!

Lois

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Permalink Reply by Clark Wade on January 8, 2009 at 1:07am

Greetings Beloved,

I must say that I'm stepping up beside brother Sean on this in support of much that he has written which has come under fire here. There is so much hype and myth about Hamas and these organizations and Israel's response to them. No one on this planet, no city, state, country wants peace more than Israel. Hamas' war against Israel is a war against civilization itself. There is no "cycle of violence" here that is being perpertrated by two parties. There is no moral equivalency. Hamas, as well as Iran, who is also pouring arms, money and terrorists into Palestine, want only one thing, and it is this: every Jew in Israel dead! Jews do not want every Muslim dead. They just want to live in peace and security. But Hitler is back with a headscarf, but even Hitler refused to lob rockets from hospitals, schools, and so called "holy buildings" in order to draw fire on innocent women and children. This is a tactic that radical Islam uses to turn world opinion against Israel to great effect.

And the killing of innocent people in Gaza by Israel? Hear me well. Nothing causes Israel more anguish of heart and soul, and it is because of their love of life, each and every one as created in the image of God. Golda Meir said something years ago that highlights this truth about Israel's love of each life. It was something like this: "We may forgive them for killing our children. But we will never forgive them for forcing us to kill theirs." You know that when Israel is forced to do as such, she is in a desparate situation and is deeply conficted.

Think of a cancer in a healthy body. The cancer will kill the body without it being taken out. And also think of how difficult it is to kill a cancer without simultaneously killing healthy tissues and cells as well. Israel is caught in a dilemma that would cause Solomon to scratch his head. Israel is damned if they do. Damned if they don't. And damned if they try to stay in some kind of moderate middle.

A little Palestinian girl had just seen her parents killed and was on Arab television. Before they knew what was coming out of her mouth, because they wanted to "use" her for exploitation of the situation, she said that "It was the fault of Hamas that her parents were dead." She didn't blame Israel. I think Sean touched on this that most of the Palestinians do in fact hate Hamas, at least those who haven't been poisoned by radical Islamic teaching that it is a holy duty to kill Jews wherever you find them, and Christians too.

Another thing that Golda said was this: "There will be peace in Jerusalem when the Arab loves their children more than they hate the Jews." Let us pray for that day.

"Violence begets violence?" If a malicious intruder were to attempt to molest and kill my children, or rape my wife, I would use whatever violence was deemed necessary to end these evil and vicious acts. The violence of WWII ended the Holocaust. The killing of Jews and Christians and the mentally ill and impaired would have gone on and on, with no end in site, had not armies been raised up to fight back. History has taught us that Neville Chamberlain's "peace at any price" does not work in the face of monstrous evil and aggression.

The world has never seen evil such as this. As one Palestinian woman cried out in protest in Florida today, "Send the Jews to the ovens!" Israel keeps bowing to pressure to "turn the other cheek." Problem is, its not our cheek that is being slapped. It's rather easy to sit back and pontificate on what "Jesus would do" in this case. Radical Islam doesn't see other human beings who are not Muslems as even being "human." They are "apes" and "pigs" and do not deserve to live. This is not about "the Palestinians" but about radical Islam that is determined to subject the world to the will of Allah. And really, this is a war against Yeshua and Yahweh! Strong words, I know. But interestingly enough, when the cry is "Al Akbar!", which most people believe to mean "God is Great!" the real implication is that Allah is "greater" than Yeshua and Yahweh. This is what was cried out when Daniel Pearl, a Jew was beheaded like an animal. I forced myself to watch this video. I was sick for days afterwards. Two young girls walking to Sunday School were also beheaded. I saw their dear young bodies laying in the morgue. Everytime a Jew or Christian is killed in this manner, these terrorists believe they are proving to the world that Allah is greater than Yahweh or Yeshua. Insane? You bet! But this insanity is well-armed, well-funded, and determined to baptize the world in its gore.

Christians need to educate themselves on what is going on here. I would suggest reading such books as "Why Do They Hate Us" by Bridgitte Gabriel. You can order this at her website, "American Congress for Truth" at http://www.americancongressfortruth.com/. Spend some serious time at this website and check out some of her links, particularly the DEBKA files, Frontpagemagazine, Jihad Watch, memri.org, etc. ,

Some of the problems I see with some of the responses here is that some people, Christians included, are un-willing to call evil "evil." Everything is "gray." I believe it is the book of Romans 13:1-6 which speaks of the retribution of God that is exacted by Governments on evil. Read this carefully. Paul is not talking about the Church here or Christians. In 13:4, he writes of the Government, that:

It is God’s servant to administer retribution on the wrongdoer.

The values that we may live as Christians may be different than what God has granted to governments. I don't see Jesus asking Israel in this case "Well, that's just not what I would do, so why are you administering retribution on these wrongdoers?" Contraire my friends. Pray that this cancer is indeed removed from Gaza and that the Palestinians who really do want to live in peace and security with their neightbors will divest themselves of the Madrassas and the virulent hatred of Jews and Christians that has been expoused by their Muslim clerics and the Koran.

I stand with Israel and I stand with the Jews on moral grounds, on civilization grounds, and on spiritual grounds.

And brother Sean, I will be praying for you and your family, for Israel, and that the Palestinian people will repent of their grevious hatred of everything Jewish and Christian and will do everything possible to drive this evil out of their midst.

Clark


Bill Benninghoff said:

Sean,

Unfortunately violence only creates more violence. We have seen this time and time again over the past 60 years in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Even if the Israeli military succeeds in "wiping out" Hamas, this will only encourage other Palestinians to believe that they died as Martyrs and a whole new crop of terrorists much bigger than the one that was killed off will eventually rise up.

It is sort of like the problem that Hercules faced with the many headed hydra: if you cut off one of the snake heads two more are generated in its place.

I think the only long term solution is for the moderate Palestinians to come together in unity and strength and put the terrorist elements within their population in prison. This will not happen though as long as Israel attacks the population in Gaza. Israeli attacks on Gaza make the terrorist elements within the Palestinian community look like they have the right approach to Israel.

I agree that Israel must defend itself against the rocket attacks, but full-out war on Gaza is not (IMO) a wise way to proceed. Somehow the Palestinian population must learn that to pursuing terrorism is not the strategy that will bring them the independence that they desire. The moderate elements within the Palestinian community need to gain influence. Israel's all out war on Gaza is not helping those moderates.

Bill

Sean Steckbeck said:

Bill,

Maybe I am not that sympathetic, but I am not praying for the violence to end on both sides.
I am praying for Hamas to be completely wiped out by the IAF with as few civilian casualties as possible.

While I feel for the civilians, am praying for them, and have many Palestinian Gazan friends who once were able to come to Israel..... Hamas destroyed is the only thing that can bring calm.

I am praying Israel isn't forced into a ceasefire until Hamas is destroyed, if they are not destroyed, there will be round 2, Kassams will fall again, and next time it might be worse.

Just like Israel was pressured into a ceasefire with Hezbollah 2 years ago and now Hezbollah has 5 times as many rockets and even biological weapons they are itching to use.

Its all the darned nations fault!
They pressured us into a ceasefire and did not let us destroy Hezbollah.


When thousands of Israelis are killed by bio-weapons when Hezbollah decides to start round 2 in Lebanon... I will blame America and other nations who pressured Israel into a ceasefire and did not allow Israel to destroy Hezbollah.

Olmert was smart this time, (not that I am a fan of Ehud Olmert, because he is diong it for politics)..... he told George Bush he could stuff his wish that Israel stops immediately.

We are going to bomb the heck out of Hamas and George Bush ( a weak leader) will not stop us.

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Permalink Reply by Clark Wade on January 8, 2009 at 1:37am

Here's a graphic to go along with my contribution that may make my point even better than my words.
.



Bill Benninghoff said:

Sean,

Unfortunately violence only creates more violence. We have seen this time and time again over the past 60 years in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Even if the Israeli military succeeds in "wiping out" Hamas, this will only encourage other Palestinians to believe that they died as Martyrs and a whole new crop of terrorists much bigger than the one that was killed off will eventually rise up.

It is sort of like the problem that Hercules faced with the many headed hydra: if you cut off one of the snake heads two more are generated in its place.

I think the only long term solution is for the moderate Palestinians to come together in unity and strength and put the terrorist elements within their population in prison. This will not happen though as long as Israel attacks the population in Gaza. Israeli attacks on Gaza make the terrorist elements within the Palestinian community look like they have the right approach to Israel.

I agree that Israel must defend itself against the rocket attacks, but full-out war on Gaza is not (IMO) a wise way to proceed. Somehow the Palestinian population must learn that to pursuing terrorism is not the strategy that will bring them the independence that they desire. The moderate elements within the Palestinian community need to gain influence. Israel's all out war on Gaza is not helping those moderates.

Bill

Sean Steckbeck said:

Bill,

Maybe I am not that sympathetic, but I am not praying for the violence to end on both sides.
I am praying for Hamas to be completely wiped out by the IAF with as few civilian casualties as possible.

While I feel for the civilians, am praying for them, and have many Palestinian Gazan friends who once were able to come to Israel..... Hamas destroyed is the only thing that can bring calm.

I am praying Israel isn't forced into a ceasefire until Hamas is destroyed, if they are not destroyed, there will be round 2, Kassams will fall again, and next time it might be worse.

Just like Israel was pressured into a ceasefire with Hezbollah 2 years ago and now Hezbollah has 5 times as many rockets and even biological weapons they are itching to use.

Its all the darned nations fault!
They pressured us into a ceasefire and did not let us destroy Hezbollah.


When thousands of Israelis are killed by bio-weapons when Hezbollah decides to start round 2 in Lebanon... I will blame America and other nations who pressured Israel into a ceasefire and did not allow Israel to destroy Hezbollah.

Olmert was smart this time, (not that I am a fan of Ehud Olmert, because he is diong it for politics)..... he told George Bush he could stuff his wish that Israel stops immediately.

We are going to bomb the heck out of Hamas and George Bush ( a weak leader) will not stop us.

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Permalink Reply by Clark Wade on January 9, 2009 at 12:16am

Thank you Claudia. There is a caveat I would like to add to the above. While we need to allow Israel to do what it needs to do to protect its citizens, there is something else that we Christians can do to support Israel's right to exist even while expressing our love to Muslims, and that is by supporting such groups as "The Voice of the Martyrs." htp://www.persecution.com/ VOM supports missionaries who are living among Muslims, and most of them converted to Christ from that mindset. These converts have a passion, the courage, and the calling to preach the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to their neighbors in Muslim countries. I can't say enough about organizations such as this. When we are feeling helpless to offer a hand, this is something tangible that we can do. Those who are totally passivists among us, know that this is a way you can become proactive in promoting peace through the message of the Only One Who can bring the peace of His presence to the heart of a terrorist. When Christ comes in, all that was of hate and malice is turned to love. And these Muslim converts are unabashed in their witness of Christ as well as their condemnation of this violence. Again, get a hold of VOM and ask for their free newsletter and support them in their support of these amazing missionaries in the most hostile of countries..

Blessings,

Your brother

Claudia said:

Clark, Thanks for your post. I believe Sean (and Israel) needs a great deal more support than he has gotten in this whole thing. The media, as usual, is covering only the stuff that is good for building up controversy...and as usual, people are buying into it. Sickening, really! Hubby and I had been listening to Israeli radio, just so we could hear from the locals there, since media doesn't care to cover them. It's good to see another "be honest" about what lengths you might go to in the event that it be your family under the threat of war and violence. I think oftentimes the shades we view spiritual matters through also cloud the way we see current events taking place, as well as how we might respond in like circumstances. Blessings! ~Claudia

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