Sabbath 7th vs 1st day
The Seventh Day Adventists make a good argument about the Sabbath.
I would say all of us find it common sense to keep all the commandments as a way to please God. Even people who feel Christ did away with the law will say that keeping the commandments do make sence even though keeping them will in no way will get anyone to heaven.
The Adventists do make a good argument that no where in the bible does God or Jesus change the day of the sabbath 'rest' from Saturday to Sunday. I know 'worship' is done on Sunday as a commemoration to Jesus resurrection on the first day of the week even though there is no scripture saying to worship on Sunday.
The reality that weakens the Adventist argument is no where did God specify a day of 'worship'. The forth commandment is specific that it is a day of 'rest'. Adventists tie rest and worship together as though worship is intertwined with the sabbath.
I will go this far as to say, Yea, we should push to take our day of rest on Saturday if we are to be true to the command but I find nothing wrong with worship on any other day of the week. Luckily, I have a Monday-Friday job with weekends off that I can rest on Saturday although I've been doing home stuff on Saturday and kicking back on Sunday taking 'a' sabbath day. It's not a rebellios thing out of spite to rest Sunday over Saturday. I'm at least making a point to take a kick back day.
Although my high focus is on loving God and loving my neighbor, it's obveous that stealing, murder, adultry, coveting, taking God's name in vain, etc. cannot be permissible with God and is worth the keeping. So I would think the sabbath or at minimum taking a day of rest some time within the 7 day time frame has importance also.
My next question would be that I don't see that God specified exactly what 6 days a person has to work so long as we rest after the 6th day. When it comes to hospital workers, could we imagin if they all took Saturday off? I guess there are things that could be brought up in an argument.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jim London on
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Ryan, have you considered some Nt texts that may have bearing on how to regard a sabbath rest? Any possibility that Hebrews 4 helps? As the letter to the Hebrews is occupied with how Christ has fulfilled the law regarding sacrifice and (high) priesthood, is it possible that the sabbath was pointing toward Him as well, and has been transcended by the rest that is Him? When Jesus says, "Come unto Me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you may find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light" (Matthew 11:28-29), is He announcing, perhaps, that He is the rest?
What is Paul getting at when he seems so exasperated by the Galatian believers and says, "Now that you know God -- or rather are known by God -- how is it that you are turning back to those weak principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over gain? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear that for you, somehow I have wasted my efforts on you." (4:8-11)? To the Colossians, Paul says, "Let no one judge you by ... or a sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ" (2:16-17).
Jesus got into a lot of hot water with the crusading Pharisees by doing all sorts of things (and defending others likewise) considered as violations of sabbath law.
Certainly one could choose to not work on a particular day for whatever reason, but could we accept that Christ is what the sabbath had pointed toward, and that sabbath-day-keeping is history? Jesus has been here, and is here! He is the rest of God.
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Permalink Reply by Micheal Ellis Childress on -
I would agree with Jim and expand a little. What if we are to rest (take our Sabbath) in Jesus always? Today is the day of salvation. Is Paul talking about a particular day or every day? If Jesus is our salvation, shouldn't our Sabbath (rest) be in Him daily?
Peace from the NN's of the Earth,
Mike
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Permalink Reply by Ryan Spear on -
I agree with both above and I'm not trying to push legalism as in salvation assurance. Of all commands, resting isn't a burden unless we have something we really need to get done. I guess squeezing in time to do nothing could be a burden if we're too busy.
As for some of the other commands, don't murder, don't steal, don't commit adultry is common sence. Coveting gets us into debt. Disobeying parents could lead to the habit of disobeying employers causing job loss.
As much as I think the 7th day adventists push the sabbath keeping to the extreem, that is the most neglected commandment. I think what it is, is that not getting a good day of rest every week doesn't have any immediate affects as breaking some of the others. Over time, we wear ourselves down both physically and mentally and may not see the affects of being more seceptible to colds, sickness, diseases or in my case, burn-out.
I look at the ten commandments as given for our own well being to keep life from becoming a bigger burden of problems brought on by ourselves than what little burden it is to not break those. A parent doesn't tell thier children not to play in the street to lord thier authority over them but to keep them from harm.
Remember the sabbath or day of rest and keep it holy or set apart and think of it as permission by God to take a day each week to do nothing and not feel bad for it.
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Permalink Reply by Sandy McCoy- Foust on -
Ryan..you say..."My next question would be that I don't see that God specified exactly what 6 days a person has to work so long as we rest after the 6th day"
My husband & I have recently moved...He has started a new job here that has a "time frame" to push things out the door..He has been working 12 to 15 hours a day since last Wed...Sat & Sun too....with no end in site right now for that day of rest you are referring to...(we r hoping this Sunday!)
We also live an hour and 10 minutes from this workplace...So he is lucky if he even gets 4 hours sleep..He is carrying my husband through this time with a supernatural strength!....(only God can give) And yes we believe this job was ordained by God..Right, place Right time......He was told at this job....that they have never worked this many hours in one given job..till he came..so this is not a permanent thing..they will eventually be back to 10 hours...
With the move and all ..money has been tight...He had been commuting from our other town (& old job) (3 hours away)..only able to come to our new home on weekends ..since July 4th......This new job...(here) & this 1st "overtime" check...is an "over the top" blessing from our Lord...to boost us in our new journey with Him.
As bad as I feel for my husband..working sooo hard..without much sleep...he reassures me God is carrying him thru this....& this too shall pass...but...all this to say .....
Our rest...to me, ....is not a specific day...but rest "IN HIM"....not that i don't feel we need a day to just rest and reflect on our Lords goodness...but heck, I like to do that EVERY day!
Blessings,
Sista Sandy :)
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Permalink Reply by Ryan Spear on
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4 hours a night sleep... yup, been there once upon a time when I attempted 2 jobs. Got home about midnight to sleep till just after 4 am where I had to get up for the 2nd job that worked 5am to 3pm and then back to my first job to work 5pm to 11pm again. It was McDonalds and a pizza place. Both jobs were fast paced and always on my feet. After a month I just about fainted from exhaustion and decided to give up the lesser paying one.What happened was McDonalds had me down to like 20 hours so I thought I would get another to make up for it. Well then both jobs decided to work me longer at the same time, 30 some hours at each and just about fainted after 62 hours on my feet with the 4 hours sleep most nights.
I know exactly how your husband feels and hope things will slow to something reasonable and that his job has sitting times. Health is more important than money. Things like this puts the value of a good days rest in perspective.
I'm glad for things changing as painful as some of the change can be. I get blah when life has some long ruts although it is nice to have a period of unchanging daily routines.
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Permalink Reply by Sandy McCoy- Foust on
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Well ..after 87 hours in one week...things are sposed to slow back down a little tomorrow!! YAY!!
Thanks Ryan
Sista Sandy :)
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Permalink Reply by John Bennett on -
1Ti 1:5 ¶ But the end of the charge is love out of a pure heart and a good conscience and faith unfeigned: 6 from which things some having swerved have turned aside unto vain talking; 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, though they understand neither what they say, nor whereof they confidently affirm. 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully, 9 as knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for abusers of themselves with men, for menstealers, for liars, for false swearers, and if there be any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine; 11 according to the gospel of the glory of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
What kind of people are christians?
john
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Hudson on -
At a recent conference here in France, we met an adventist couple who are running a group in their house. They were so hungry for all the advice we could give them. They had bought the Getting Started manual (yes it is available in French) from a Christian bookshop. It is incredible how God is moving!
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Permalink Reply by Doug Moore on
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Sunday is
1) Lord's Day
2) day Christ resurrected
3) single day of the week apostles and christians worshiped from 1st century on
4) day of the week by example to give to the church
5) day of the week to partake of the Lord's supper
Sunday is not1) christians sabbath
2) a changed sabbath
3) a day of rest
4) a holy day
the law of Moses was completed at the cross and we are no longer under that law (law + 10 commandments).
the sabbath was only given to Israel for the duration of the law of Moses.
the sabbath is not mentioned in Genesis.
the sabbath is not given as a day of rest to the patriarchs or anyone prior to law of Moses.
when talking to seventh day adventists you should stear the conversation towards the old covenant fullfilled and that we are now under the new covenant only.
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Permalink Reply by Claude Richards on -
Hey whoa!
Why are we still so taken with the good arguments of legalism? Have we been freed from the Party of Circumcision – the Law’s other mark of fleshly, Jewish identity - to be enslaved by the Party of Sabbaths?
The Law is a package deal: You don’t get credit for picking parts to follow. But even if you did, Moses never gives you a choice of Sabbaths. So, whose Sabbath are you keeping? And while we’re at it: Moses never gives you a choice of High Priests; if Jesus is your High Priest, you’re outside of Mosaic Law.
Such good arguments are for those who put their confidence in the flesh. Walk in the Spirit, instead.
Claude, a brother
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Permalink Reply by Ryan Spear on
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Hi Claude,This wasn't for me a legalistic argument. This wasn't a push for either works for salvation or works to keep it. I find a lot of value in the moral side of the law even common sence. I'm sure you'd agree murder is wrong. Take Cain killing Able prior to any law. Was there no consequences even though Cain was never told not to murder? God put a mark on him so he wouldn't be revenged upon. I might lean toward Calvanistic thinking but am dead against salvation being a license to sin just because there is no fear of hell. Despite no longer being under the 'condemnation' of the law, it's still wrong to do wrong. Children still have to be taught not to steal and to obey thier parents. Teens and adults still need to be taught not to commit adultry. These are not valueless rules. I don't go to church any more and still find enough value in keeping these things and I have no one pushing me to do so. If I'm going to call my self a Christian, I figure I should put forth some effort to resist my flesh and evil mind to act like one and not for blessings but just because.
Claude Richards said:
Hey whoa!
Why are we still so taken with the good arguments of legalism? Have we been freed from the Party of Circumcision – the Law’s other mark of fleshly, Jewish identity - to be enslaved by the Party of Sabbaths?
The Law is a package deal: You don’t get credit for picking parts to follow. But even if you did, Moses never gives you a choice of Sabbaths. So, whose Sabbath are you keeping? And while we’re at it: Moses never gives you a choice of High Priests; if Jesus is your High Priest, you’re outside of Mosaic Law.
Such good arguments are for those who put their confidence in the flesh. Walk in the Spirit, instead.
Claude, a brother
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Permalink Reply by David on -
I did not plan on commenting but, as I was navigating away, there was a check in my spirit to give scripture in response. So here it is from Acts 15:1-31 with thanks to www.theword.net
This passage addresses all aspects of the Mosaic Law not just circumcision.
The Jerusalem Council
1 Now some men came down from Judea1 and began to teach the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised2 according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 When Paul and Barnabas had a major argument and debate1 with them, the church2 appointed Paul and Barnabas and some others from among them to go up to meet with3 the apostles and elders in Jerusalem4 about this point of disagreement.5 3 So they were sent on their way by the church, and as they passed through both Phoenicia1 and Samaria, they were relating at length2 the conversion of the Gentiles and bringing great joy3 to all the brothers. 4 When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all the things God had done with them.note 5 But some from the religious party of the Pharisees who had believed stood up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise the Gentiles and to order them to observe the law of Moses.”
6 Both the apostles and the elders met together to deliberate about this matter. 7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that some time ago God chose me to preach to the Gentiles so they would hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, has testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between them and us, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? 11 On the contrary, we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they are.”
12 The whole group kept quiet and listened to Barnabas and Paul while they explained all the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 After they stopped speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. 14 Simeon has explained how God first concerned himself to select from among the Gentiles a people for his name. 15 The words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written,
16 ‘After this I will return,
and I will rebuild the fallen tent of David;
I will rebuild its ruins and restore it,
17 so that the rest of humanity may seek the Lord,
namely, all the Gentiles I have called to be my own,’ says the Lord, who makes these things
18 known from long ago.
19 “Therefore I conclude that we should not cause extra difficulty for those among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we should write them a letter telling them to abstain from things defiled by idols and from sexual immorality and from what has been strangled and from blood. 21 For Moses has had those who proclaim him in every town from ancient times, because he is read aloud in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to send men chosen from among them, Judas called Barsabbas and Silas, leaders among the brothers, to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. 23 They sent this letter with them:
From the apostles and elders, your brothers, to the Gentile brothers and sisters in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia, greetings!
24 Since we have heard that some have gone out from among us with no orders from us and have confused you, upsetting your minds by what they said,
25 we have unanimously decided to choose men to send to you along with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul,
26 who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas who will tell you these things themselves in person.
28 For it seemed best to the Holy Spirit and to us not to place any greater burden on you than these necessary rules:
29 that you abstain from meat that has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what has been strangled and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from doing these things, you will do well. Farewell.
30 So when they were dismissed, they went down to Antioch, and after gathering the entire group together, they delivered the letter. 31 When they read it aloud, the people rejoiced at its encouragement.
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