Saving Humanity
The real mission why Jesus came was not simply to save us from sin and damnation but rather it was to save humanity, focusing on the soul's salvation alone can be limiting at the same time diverts us from God's purpose.
God created man, a creation that carries His image and likeness, thus establishing humanity. Man sinned and we were dehumanized, compromising God's purpose for humanity, and from that day on we lived in a sub-human state, the fallen nature as they call it.
When Jesus came, His mission was to make a way for us to regain our humanity; spirit, soul and body (although the last will be changed with something glorified in the near future). He came to transform us back into being humans again.
We must understand our worth as humans in the sight of God so that we could be more humane with our dealings with others, so that we could reachout to them as humans who need transformation not just as souls who need salvation. Salvation can only be consumated through transformation and transformation cannot be achieved by simply praying the sinners prayer.
When man first came about he was in a perfect state, embodying God's perfect image and likeness, he was not God but he was like God. Humanity was suppose to cover the earth with God likeness. Isn't it about time that we continue and carry on with the mission of Jesus in its original order.
God created man, a creation that carries His image and likeness, thus establishing humanity. Man sinned and we were dehumanized, compromising God's purpose for humanity, and from that day on we lived in a sub-human state, the fallen nature as they call it.
When Jesus came, His mission was to make a way for us to regain our humanity; spirit, soul and body (although the last will be changed with something glorified in the near future). He came to transform us back into being humans again.
We must understand our worth as humans in the sight of God so that we could be more humane with our dealings with others, so that we could reachout to them as humans who need transformation not just as souls who need salvation. Salvation can only be consumated through transformation and transformation cannot be achieved by simply praying the sinners prayer.
When man first came about he was in a perfect state, embodying God's perfect image and likeness, he was not God but he was like God. Humanity was suppose to cover the earth with God likeness. Isn't it about time that we continue and carry on with the mission of Jesus in its original order.
Views: 0
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Bill Wood on -
Greetings heavenly dwellers...
In my humble opinion Jesus came and completely exterminated the first humanity in His death. He then rose again being the first-born among many brothers of a NEW HUMANITY.
-
Permalink Reply by Daniel & Heather on -
I'm confused by the original statements... I don't see a distinction between salvation from sin and damnation and regaining humanity, to me, they are two ways of describing the exact same thing... There is no salvation of the soul that would exclude a physical resurrection, and vice versa. Are you saying that we shouldn't "limit" ourselves to preaching the gospel, but instead embrace an agenda that acknowldeges the "full humanity" (and what exactly would that mean...)? I agree with what you said about the sinner's prayer, but I don't understand what you're saying overall. Salvation through Christ is more than just a return to the original perfect state, but actually a resurrection into a new state, one that will be even more glorious and amazing than the one in the garden, becuase we will know God not just as creator, but as our saviour....
Daniel
-
Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on -
Where do we see that we'll have a physical resurrection?
I see Paul telling us that since we died with Christ (which wasn't literal/physical/bodily, but a spiritual reality), then we'll also be resurrected with Christ -- so why would we assume that it would be literal/physical/bodily? Especially in light of Jesus telling His disciples that His Kingdom wouldn't come by observation (IOW, we can't *see* it), but would be in their midst, within them, i.e., spiritually discerned.
Perhaps we're adding to the Scripture, based on what our traditions have taught us...?
Of course, I could be missing something. It happened once, and it could happen again... LOL!
Shalom, Dena
Daniel & Heather said:I'm confused by the original statements... I don't see a distinction between salvation from sin and damnation and regaining humanity, to me, they are two ways of describing the exact same thing... There is no salvation of the soul that would exclude a physical resurrection, and vice versa. Are you saying that we shouldn't "limit" ourselves to preaching the gospel, but instead embrace an agenda that acknowldeges the "full humanity" (and what exactly would that mean...)? I agree with what you said about the sinner's prayer, but I don't understand what you're saying overall. Salvation through Christ is more than just a return to the original perfect state, but actually a resurrection into a new state, one that will be even more glorious and amazing than the one in the garden, becuase we will know God not just as creator, but as our saviour....
Daniel
-
Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on
-
Methinks you're on to something here...!
Wondering if you're "seeing" (spiritually) what I'm seeing...?
I see a whole 'nother thing that started in the first century ...during that transition-generation.
I think we're just now (a mere 2,000 years after it happened!), starting to awaken to the fullnes of what Jesus did for all of us.
What see you, Bill...?
Shalom, Dena
Bill Wood said:Greetings heavenly dwellers...
In my humble opinion Jesus came and completely exterminated the first humanity in His death. He then rose again being the first-born among many brothers of a NEW HUMANITY.
-
Permalink Reply by Cindy Skillman on -
Paul had a lot to say about the resurrection. It's important, though, to realize that when Paul talked about the resurrection, he was referring to a literal, physical resurrection. You can see this if you study his writings comprehensively and take some time to ferret out exactly what argument he was pursuing where, rather than pulling out isolated verses as so many of us (me included) have been taught to do. One reason he talked about this subject so much seems to have been that the Greeks (most of them) saw a physical resurrection as absurd. They had been taught that matter was evil and had been created by some lesser, unwise god in a moment of rash individualism. God, however, proclaimed matter to be good in His original creation, prior to the fall.
Paul said that we would be raised as Jesus was raised (1 Corinthians 15). Was Jesus physically raised? Then we will be. Jesus body was changed, glorified--ours will be, too. Rather than having a mortal body as we have now, we will have a spiritual body, but this spiritual body will still be a body. It will be the outgrowth or supernatural development of our physical body, which was the seed that fell into the ground and died. A seed produces after its own kind. A body will produce a body, though how much more glorious than that body which died!
God gave me a mind picture of this once--a withered, wrinkled up seed (our dying body) producing a beautiful, glorious body--somehow different, and yet not alien--from our physical body. It filled me with hope and joy that He would be so good to us.
I suspect that the Jesus whom Peter, James and John saw on the mount of transfiguration looked a lot like Jesus in His glorified body. Jesus as His disciples saw Him following the resurrection does not appear from the scriptures to have looked different from the way He had looked prior to His death. We see nothing to indicate that He did, aside from the scars of crucifixion. He could be touched; He ate food; He had a human voice; He looked like an ordinary man (Mary mistook Him for the gardener until she got a look at His face). Either God hid His glorification or He had not yet been glorified, as He had not yet ascended to Heaven.
But He did have a body. He is the first fruits of the dead, and the fruits that follow (His people) can reasonably expect to be of similar kind to Him. Jesus came to redeem His whole creation. That includes our physical planet, our relationships, the natural world, animals and humans--everything that God made and proclaimed to be good. Nothing gets tossed out in a defeat, however partial, to Satan's treachery.
Honestly, I can't wait. My heart sings with joy at the greatness of His accomplishments, and that He cares for each of us, no matter how small and inconsequential.
Grace and peace,
Cindy
-
Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on
-
I don't see a physical resurrection.
I see that we were crucified with Christ, so too we'll be resurrected with Him.
The crucifixion wasn't literal, bodily. It was a spiritual crucifixion.
So, what makes us think the resurrection would be (or was, dependingly), literal and bodily...?
Shalom, Dena
-
Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on
-
I'm sorry that I didn't make my thoughts clear, Steven.
I do not doubt Jesus' bodily resurrection. There's much physical evidence, eyewitness accounts, the lack of a body (the Jews and Romans would've been *very* invested in producing evidence of a *lack* of a resurrection). Plus, as you say, my own life has been trasnformed by Him who could not be held by death. He who conquered death for us all.
My doubt is about whether WE did/will experience a bodily resurrection. I see some biblical evidence that the end of the age (spoken of by Jesus in Mt. 24, etc.) occurred in 70AD (within that generation, while some of them were still alive, had not tasted death).
My doubt is about whether the dead bodies (in the graves, with souls in Sheol/Hades since Adam) literally, bodily resurrected (or will resurrect, depending on your theology) from the graves. I don't see that Scripture says that's the case. I see that His Kingdom is unobservable, but spiritual. I believe it's at least likely (& I'm rather convinced), that the resurrection of the dead, which I believe happened in 70AD, was a spiritual change -- and that the apostles, who had heeded Jesus warning to not go into the city, but to run for the hills, were met by Him, and were indeed transformed (as was everyone, as was the nature of this new covenant, new heavens/earth) -- but that it was a spiritual transformation -- it happened in their midst, in their spirits.
I believe that our thinking about what Scripture actually says is hugely colored by the teachings of Darby and Scofield, and that what we believe now is only a recent understanding -- it goes contrary to what the church believed and taught for hundreds of years.
Hope that makes better sense -- at least clearing up what I was saying, even if you disagree with what I'm seeing.
To recap: I believe that Jesus was resurrected. I don't believe that we will be physically resurrected like Him -- but that we were resurrected spiritually, and that it happened in the first century.
Shalom, Dena
Steven McDade said:Dena Brehm said:I don't see a physical resurrection.
I see that we were crucified with Christ, so too we'll be resurrected with Him.
The crucifixion wasn't literal, bodily. It was a spiritual crucifixion.
So, what makes us think the resurrection would be (or was, dependingly), literal and bodily...?
Shalom, Dena
Some times I doubt the physical resurrection too, but this is what I do know.
Something happened with the disciples that they encountered Jesus after he was "dead". The story says that the tomb was empty. There are conflicting accounts on who was first to the grave site. Yet again, the gospels are "according" to the authors.
I have encountered Jesus in both Spirit and Body, meaning others who know and follow Jesus too. I have had visions of Jesus, one just recently when my friend Chuck Meyer passed away. I have seen Jesus, though I can not describe his face to you. And I can't just point him out in a crowd either.
There is something about both physical and spiritual crucifixion and renewal that makes us want to be like him and get away from how the world acts.
Remember that Thomas doubted Jesus alive, and it still was his body because it had holes in it, until he saw him.
Sometimes that's what it takes. Seeing him. I don't think he appears this way just to anyone.
It's ok to doubt. It's in the Bible. Doubt brings you back to faith. Don't know why. I used to doubt that God was even there, many years ago, but He proved to me time and time again, that he is there.
Through Jesus and many others who have walked and are walking the earth right here, right now.
-
Permalink Reply by Timothy L. Price on -
The initial post I question. Where are we told that God wished to reclaim humanity? Where are we told that "our humanity died"? This sound more like humanism that bible truth. The scriptures said we died. It also tells us that our spirit is dead in trespasses and sin... This says nothing about "humanity" whatever that is supposed to mean.
I see a lot of theology and empty philosophy in the idea of "our humanity" being anything God is concerned about. Are we more than body and feelings? Does our "humanity" live on when we die? It would appear as though we need to rethink this just a wee bit.
Sincerely,
Tim Price
-
Permalink Reply by Cindy Skillman on
-
Alexander, I believe you are rational and true to scripture in your theology. I'm musing on this now, having re-read this thread; how it is important to know God and it is important to have an intimate relationship--to Know God. We need both. Head knowledge is not enough, but emotional knowledge may lead us astray if we don't know the scriptures. Well said.
I'd like to go into this more, but I've just talked about this extensively on my wordpress blog, and I'm afraid I would try everyone's patience if I posted all that here. I did transfer my five posts on 1 Corinthians 15 over to the blog section here at Simple Church, so if anyone is interested in looking them over, they are available.
I do believe the scriptures teach a literal resurrection from the dead for all believers, and these blog posts go into that as a commentary on this chapter of Corinthians in which Paul deals with this subject.
-
Permalink Reply by Larry Montes on -
Hello fellow Heavenly earth dwellers (for now)! My Net went boom for 6 days.
I was amazed when I looked for the meaning of humanity in the dictionary, besides humankind and human race, I found out that it also meant kindness, charity, compassion and sympathy. I believe that those virtues are included in the Divine Nature Peter was talking about (2 Pet 1:4), that we are to participate in. Actually I was not thinking about literal bodily resurrection or the spiritual kind when i wrote this discussion, although I also have my preference, but rather I was looking at how we as Christians are relating towards each other (and to the unbelievers as well) as we still dwell this corrupted earth. Why is it that instead of acknowledging that we are in the same boat fighting a common enemy, we often times end up assaulting each other, to the dismay of the unbelieving world who looks at us as the extension of Jesus' mission to save humanity from every kind of damnation that she faces. Personally I don't believe that Jesus completely exterminated fallen humanity (they are not the first humanity either) for that will leave us without a mission but rather He cut off the power of sin that feeds them. We are in a mission that is too important to be lost just because of trivial matters.
The first humanity carried God's image with them like a child who looks like his parents, with fallen humanity it became embedded that needs to be converted, and when Jesus came He set the phase to raise up saved humanity who are participating in God's Divine nature. For me HUMANITY means God's moral attributes active and functional in the dirt based being he created, this is a now a process that we must allow ourselves in, we also call it transformation. God bless us all!
Our Partners
Badge
© 2012 Created by Dale Interactive.
