What was Jesus heavenly name before being born on earth as Jesus
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dan W. Cawthon on -
Thanks Dena for the kind words. Sometimes God leads us into unknown territory and although the journey may be shaky, the fruits along the way are sweet and heartfelt tugs are inspiring as you are fed the meat of the Bible instead of the Milk.
God bless
Dan
Dena Brehm said:Thank you for that article, Dan ... and for your heart-hugging post!
I've bookmarked it (the article -- I'm savoring the hug!), and look forward to reading it - thanks!
I like how you think, and how you show your love -- what a beautiful (& preciously rare) combination...!
Shalom, Dena
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Permalink Reply by Dan W. Cawthon on
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Thanks Dena and your friend
These passages are surely food for thought and Jesus the anointed one is good to know about.
God bless
Dan
Dena Brehm said:(Concidentally?), my friend from another forum wrote this:
Christ is from the Greek word for anointed, and Messiah transliterates the Hebrew word for anointed. I often use the neologism "Christed" as a synonym for anointed to emphasize the verbal or process sense of the word. It is quite proper to use the expression Jesus the Anointed for Jesus Christ and the anointed Jesus for Christ Jesus.
Both Hebrew and Greek have several different words that have been translated as anoint so it may be prudent to check original languages when comparing scriptures with the word anoint and its various grammatical forms. Christ is the anglicized form of the Greek Christos, a grammatical form of the verb chrio (anoint).
Any of us may become anointed, indeed in eternity we are all anointed.
Some passages with chrio:
In Luke 4:18 Jesus says "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor."
Paul with Timothy and Silvanus wrote in 2 Cor. 1:21-22: Now he who establishes us with you in Christ [the Anointed] and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a deposit.
In a universal declaration to mankind known a the First Epistle of John we find (2:24-27):
Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning, If what you heard in the beginning abides in you, you will also abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us-- eternal life. These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
The passages above are from the NKJV. The NRSV and several other translations I compared are very similar. The Jerusalam Bible IMO makes 1 John 2:27 even clearer:
But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you,
and you do not need anyone to teach you;
the anointing that he gave teaches you everthing;
you are anointed with truth, not with a lie,
and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.
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Permalink Reply by Dan W. Cawthon on
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Hello Connie:
Thanks for your thoughts and I can agree with you that the I AM of the burning bush Moses spoke to is Jesus. But to my understanding Jehovah is a name for God the father, not Jesus. Having said that, the YHWH of the bible can pertain to both the Father and son and Yahweh is another name for the Father. But could Yahweh be the father and Jehovah the son? Food for thought in any event.
I believe in the Godhead as expressed in 1 Jn 5:7
7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Now I know there are some out there that will take me to task and tell me this scripture if spurious and should not have been added to the bible. But that is debate for another time.
Also, I might add, that I believe God loves us all and Jesus paid the price to redeem us all whether we are Catholics, Later Day Saints, Baptist, Jehovah Witnesses, Church of Christ, protestants all, Budhist, Islam or just members of Simple church.
God bless
Dan
Connie said:LDS believe that after the fall of Adam and Eve, man was separated from God the Father, and the only time his voice was heard after that was to introduce the Son. "Behold my beloved son..." All other communication between god and man since the fall has been with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is our advocate with the Father. He is our Redeemer. There is no other way to go back to the Father's presence but by the Son. We have to accept the atonement of Jesus Christ: have faith enough to believe in Jesus Christ and in all that He reveals or teaches us, repent, and be baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Jesus can be called the Father and the Son, because he represents the Father, and as we accept his atonement we become his sons and daughters. It is all in the Bible, but like Joseph Smith, seeing is believing. Once you see them it all makes perfect sense. It is too bad we all couldn't have seen them, but God does not work that way. We are given the choice to have faith to believe on their words. "To some it is given to know, to others to believe on their words". I choose to believe, and my faith justifies my belief.
Before Jesus birth on earth he existed as a spirit in heaven. He was called Jehovah. He created the heaven and earth while he was a spirit.
He appeared to Moses inside the burning bush. Perhaps Moses was blinded by the light and it appeared the bush was burning, yet wasn't consumed.
Everyone who died left their body in the grave, and their spirit went on to it's place to wait for the resurrection.
As soon as Jesus died, and he was resurrected, the resurrection of the righteous began.
Joseph Smith describes the three types of beings this way: spirits, humans, resurrected beings. There is no end to glory and light, as it is acquired.
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Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on -
Your gracious and humble heart touches me, Dan.
You live what you believe, and it shows.
Thanks for letting me see Christ in you!
Shalom, Dena
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Permalink Reply by Eric Barkley on -
Dear Brother Dan.
One more input. After reading most of the posts after I made my comment, I find I am repeating some points.
Some of my info is from the “Restoration of Original Sacred Name BIBLE” basis of the Rotherham Version (1959) and published by the Missionary Dispensary Bible Research, 5th Edition 1977. (It’s no longer in print.)
I have given about 30 of these away & wanted to order more a few years ago and had no luck in finding the publishers.
Italics are my statements.
The name of Yahvahshua before He became the Savior was the same as The Father’s because there is no separation of personalities.
He had the exact likeness of the Father. Like us, made in His image, there is only the One, I AM, one body, one soul, one spirit, and I believe that Yahvahshua was like the “soul” of the FATHER.
The Name of Yahvahshua, is made up of the two words YAHVAH (FATHER+SHUA, the savior).
Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven and descended? Who has gathered the wind into His two hands? Who has bound the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name, if you know? [John 3:13; Rev. 19:12.]
Isaiah 42:8 I am YAHVAH; that is My name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images.
John 5:43 I have come in My Father’s name and with His power, (to save us).
And I believe coming in the name is the same as coming in the nature, identity and purpose of YAHVAH.
(My father’s name is YAHVAH-)
Acts 26:14-15 And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice in the Hebrew tongue saying to me, Saul, Saul, why do you continue to persecute Me [to harass and trouble and molest Me]? It is dangerous and turns out badly for you to keep kicking against the goads [to keep offering vain and perilous resistance].And I said, Who are You, Lord? And the Lord said, I am YAHVAHSHUA , Whom you are persecuting.
Meaning of YAHVAHSHUA is The Existing, Ever-Living, Eternal One Saves.
Philippians 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Messiah YAHSHUA, who, although He existed in the form of YAHVAH, did not regard equality with YAHVAH a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, YAHVAH highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of YAHVAHSHUA EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Or the same verse here from Ferrar Fenton’s translation of 1903.
Think this with yourselves, What was in Christ Jesus?-Who existing in the beauty of God, considered not His Divine equality an incitement to greed; but forsook Himself, taking the form of a slave; arriving in human appearance; and being found apparently like a man, He humbled Himself, becoming subject to death,
1901 ASV. Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the
The Greek for begotten: 3439 mŏnŏgĕnēs (6), sole, one and only
John 3:16-18 God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (G3439) (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him. He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation—he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.]
As YAHVAHSHUA has one throne, and YAHVAH has one throne that YAHVAHSHUA sat on with His Father, and there are seven spirits around the one throne, and around this One Throne there are 24 other thrones, we have to see that there are not two thrones in heaven that the 24 elders sit around, but one throne.
All this just to point out the Jesus has the same name as His Father in the begining.
Another verse I like is John 1:18
IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. [Isa. 9:6.] 2 He was present originally with God. 3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being. 4 In Him was Life, and the Life was the Light of men. 5 And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it [put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is unreceptive to it]. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. [Mal. 3:1.] 7 This man came to witness, that he might testify of the Light, that all men might believe in it [adhere to it, trust it, and rely upon it] through him. 8 He was not the Light himself, but came that he might bear witness regarding the Light. 9 There it was—the true Light [was then] coming into the world [the genuine, perfect, steadfast Light] that illumines every person. [Isa. 49:6.] 10 He came into the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him [did not know Him]. 11 He came to that which belonged to Him [to His own—His domain, reation, things, world], and they who were His own did not receive Him and did not welcome Him. 12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name—[Isa. 56:5.] 13 Who owe their birth neither to bloods nor to the will of the flesh [that of physical impulse] nor to the will of man [that of a natural father], but to God. [They are born of God!] 14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth. [Isa. 40:5.] 15 John testified about Him and cried out, This was He of Whom I said, He Who comes after me has priority over me, for He was before me. [He takes rank above me, for He existed before I did. He has advanced before me, because He is my Chief.] 16 For out of His fullness (abundance) we have all received [all had a share and we were all supplied with] one grace after another and spiritual blessing upon spiritual blessing and even favor upon favor and gift [heaped] upon gift. 17 For while the Law was given through Moses, grace (unearned, undeserved favor and spiritual blessing) and truth came through Jesus Christ. [Exod. 20:1.]
18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known]. [Prov. 8:30.]
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Permalink Reply by Connie on -
Dan, thank-you for your kind response. I am including all references to Jehovah that are found in the Bible, http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?type=words&last=jehovah&...
In Exodus 6:3 it is pretty clear.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?type=studyhelps&last=jehova...
This is quite an interesting study. Thank-you for suggesting it. From this I would say your answer is Jehovah. Another interesting study might be to see why Jehovah is referred to as the Father and the Son. You might be surprised to find many references to that in our LDS scriptures.
connie
Dan W. Cawthon said:Hello Connie:
Thanks for your thoughts and I can agree with you that the I AM of the burning bush Moses spoke to is Jesus. But to my understanding Jehovah is a name for God the father, not Jesus. Having said that, the YHWH of the bible can pertain to both the Father and son and Yahweh is another name for the Father. But could Yahweh be the father and Jehovah the son? Food for thought in any event. I believe in the Godhead as expressed in 1 Jn 5:7 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Now I know there are some out there that will take me to task and tell me this scripture if spurious and should not have been added to the bible. But that is debate for another time. Also, I might add, that I believe God loves us all and Jesus paid the price to redeem us all whether we are Catholics, Later Day Saints, Baptist, Jehovah Witnesses, Church of Christ, protestants all, Budhist, Islam or just members of Simple church.
God bless
Dan
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Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on
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Hi Eric!
I love what you shared here ... and I love the literal versions of the Bible ... Young's, Concordant, and Rotherham. BTW, is this the version you're looking for?
http://www.amazon.com/Rotherhams-Emphasized-Joseph-Bryant-Rotherham...
And, if so, here are some used versions, for less: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/082543601X/ref=dp_olp_used?i...
There's more I could say ... but I'll hold back for now.
Shalom, Dena
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Permalink Reply by Dan W. Cawthon on
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Wonderful insight Dena,
Thanks so much for the council-- I do see where I have in some cases become more preachy and talking INSTEAD of listening. But when I do quote scripture the intent was to show in pursuing this topic information, this is what I've learned. But you are right in some cases I have overextended my reach and could have left some things unsaid.
Thanks again for the chastisement dear friend, I would expect nothing less from you.
God Bliess
Dan
Dena Brehm said:I commend you for your courage and tenacity, Dan.
When we recognize that we, in finite form, cannot possibly contain *all truth*, then we can continue in the journey of receiving all truth ... as He promised that His Spirit would lead us into all truth.
However, all truth cannot be confused with, or limited by "all doctrine" ... one proceeds from God, and the latter proceeds from the limited mind of man. And if we imagine we already possess all truth, we're not open to the "more truth" that He's continually revealing to us ... He has much more to show us -- but, like the disciples, we often cannot bear it.
Sometimes we have to let go of previous notions about God, in order to comprehend what God is showing us about Himself ... this can be alarming, and threatening, and many will dissuade you from this journey.
Like you, I'm exploring what it means: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
What part of "all things" would be excluded from that? What exists that He did not create? What things are not held together by Him? What's not *of* Him...? What other Source of life is there? What other Essence of life is there? Science tells us that all we see and perceive through our senses is illusory ... that matter is merely energy manifesting in various vibrational frequencies ... that what appears to be solid is actually moving energy ... that everything is constructed out of energy ... that each atom has more space within it, and around it than what it's made of ... that matter is held together with Energy ... Life ... God.
He is in all things ... all things are of Him. Everything is an expression of Him.
How He is magnified..!
The universe declares the glory of God...!
(just my own thoughts de jour ... y'all are perfectly free to dismiss some, or all, of it...)
Shalom, Dena
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Permalink Reply by Connie on
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I don't know where you were chastised or for why, but I'm here to congratulate you for thinking outside the box!
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Permalink Reply by Dena Brehm on
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LOL, it was just my meandering blatherings, Connie ... you know how I can go on, and on, and on...
Dan just thought my thoughts were directed at him (but I love what he wrote!).
Shalom, Dena
Connie said:I don't know where you were chastised or for why, but I'm here to congratulate you for thinking outside the box!
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Permalink Reply by Dan W. Cawthon on
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Dear brother Eric:
Words fail me on expressing my appreciation for your reply. I think you have revealed to me the answer(s) I was seeking. Sorry to be so long in replying to your post. In the interim, I was able to find a copy of “Restoration of Original Sacred Name BIBLE” and have been reading and studying it. I already had a copy of Rotherham’s
Emphasized Bible, but this new bible although being the same bible in content has added both the Father and Jesus names as YAHVAH for the father and the son as you pointed out is Yahvahshua, is made up of the two words YAHVAH (FATHER+SHUA, the savior).
I know there is more to learn, but this was an enormous step in the right direction I believe.
God bless you and yours
Dan
Eric Barkley said:Dear Brother Dan.
One more input. After reading most of the posts after I made my comment, I find I am repeating some points.
Some of my info is from the “Restoration of Original Sacred Name BIBLE” basis of the Rotherham Version (1959) and published by the Missionary Dispensary Bible Research, 5th Edition 1977. (It’s no longer in print.)
I have given about 30 of these away & wanted to order more a few years ago and had no luck in finding the publishers.
Italics are my statements.
The name of Yahvahshua before He became the Savior was the same as The Father’s because there is no separation of personalities.
He had the exact likeness of the Father. Like us, made in His image, there is only the One, I AM, one body, one soul, one spirit, and I believe that Yahvahshua was like the “soul” of the FATHER.
The Name of Yahvahshua, is made up of the two words YAHVAH (FATHER+SHUA, the savior).
Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven and descended? Who has gathered the wind into His two hands? Who has bound the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name, if you know? [John 3:13; Rev. 19:12.]
Isaiah 42:8 I am YAHVAH; that is My name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images.
John 5:43 I have come in My Father’s name and with His power, (to save us).
And I believe coming in the name is the same as coming in the nature, identity and purpose of YAHVAH.
(My father’s name is YAHVAH-)
Acts 26:14-15 And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice in the Hebrew tongue saying to me, Saul, Saul, why do you continue to persecute Me [to harass and trouble and molest Me]? It is dangerous and turns out badly for you to keep kicking against the goads [to keep offering vain and perilous resistance].And I said, Who are You, Lord? And the Lord said, I am YAHVAHSHUA , Whom you are persecuting.
Meaning of YAHVAHSHUA is The Existing, Ever-Living, Eternal One Saves.
Philippians 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Messiah YAHSHUA, who, although He existed in the form of YAHVAH, did not regard equality with YAHVAH a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, YAHVAH highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of YAHVAHSHUA EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Or the same verse here from Ferrar Fenton’s translation of 1903.
Think this with yourselves, What was in Christ Jesus?-Who existing in the beauty of God, considered not His Divine equality an incitement to greed; but forsook Himself, taking the form of a slave; arriving in human appearance; and being found apparently like a man, He humbled Himself, becoming subject to death,
1901 ASV. Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the
The Greek for begotten: 3439 mŏnŏgĕnēs (6), sole, one and only
John 3:16-18 God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (G3439) (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him. He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation—he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.]
As YAHVAHSHUA has one throne, and YAHVAH has one throne that YAHVAHSHUA sat on with His Father, and there are seven spirits around the one throne, and around this One Throne there are 24 other thrones, we have to see that there are not two thrones in heaven that the 24 elders sit around, but one throne.
All this just to point out the Jesus has the same name as His Father in the begining.
Another verse I like is John 1:18
IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. [Isa. 9:6.] 2 He was present originally with God. 3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being. 4 In Him was Life, and the Life was the Light of men. 5 And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it [put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is unreceptive to it]. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. [Mal. 3:1.] 7 This man came to witness, that he might testify of the Light, that all men might believe in it [adhere to it, trust it, and rely upon it] through him. 8 He was not the Light himself, but came that he might bear witness regarding the Light. 9 There it was—the true Light [was then] coming into the world [the genuine, perfect, steadfast Light] that illumines every person. [Isa. 49:6.] 10 He came into the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him [did not know Him]. 11 He came to that which belonged to Him [to His own—His domain, reation, things, world], and they who were His own did not receive Him and did not welcome Him. 12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name—[Isa. 56:5.] 13 Who owe their birth neither to bloods nor to the will of the flesh [that of physical impulse] nor to the will of man [that of a natural father], but to God. [They are born of God!] 14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth. [Isa. 40:5.] 15 John testified about Him and cried out, This was He of Whom I said, He Who comes after me has priority over me, for He was before me. [He takes rank above me, for He existed before I did. He has advanced before me, because He is my Chief.] 16 For out of His fullness (abundance) we have all received [all had a share and we were all supplied with] one grace after another and spiritual blessing upon spiritual blessing and even favor upon favor and gift [heaped] upon gift. 17 For while the Law was given through Moses, grace (unearned, undeserved favor and spiritual blessing) and truth came through Jesus Christ. [Exod. 20:1.]
18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known]. [Prov. 8:30.]
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Permalink Reply by Carolyn on -
Eric, you have given the answer of the ages... blessings on the man who knows his God.
Who Jesus is, in truth, makes quite a bit of difference. It defines where he goes and what he does.
His sheep do know his voice, and they know his name.
The manifestation of the Father in Jesus is the sure way to know what He will do in eternity.
It was a joy just to read your words!
Dan, thanks for the question. Having the question brings the answer. Blessings! Carolyn
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