A Phone Call to Remember (part 2)
In many churches, women are limited in what they are allowed to do. They can make the coffee, (actually a specifically male role as exemplified by the book of He Brews) and teach a children’s Sunday school class. But it is what women are NOT allowed to do that is the problem. In many situations, women are not allowed any role that carries “authority.” For example, I have a close friend who has been trained to teach a disciple-making course. But sometimes, when a church hears that one of the presenters of the course is going to be a woman, they refuse to allow her to come.
God has given me (and many other women) certain desires and gifts that have always led me to be a strategic thinker. I love listening to God, particularly in the context of a group that is seeking His face for what He is doing within the Kingdom. As a physician, I was capable of making life-and-death decisions, but for years I was not allowed to take any kind of leadership role in church because of my gender. This was a huge source of sadness for me.
Thankfully the Holy Spirit is beginning to change all of this. There is an increasing understanding that the Scriptures do not prohibit women from leadership roles. God is using women all over the world to extend His Kingdom. Women have started over 80 percent of the house churches in China. A similar situation exists in Dr Yonggi Cho’s church in Korea where again women lead over 80 percent of the cell groups of the largest church in the world. Think of Heidi Baker, who with her husband, Rolland, is responsible for more than 10,000 churches in Mozambique and other African countries. In India, recently, I met a middle-aged housewife who, with the team she has trained, has started more than 6,000 churches.
What can God do with a woman who is yielded to Him?
God has given me (and many other women) certain desires and gifts that have always led me to be a strategic thinker. I love listening to God, particularly in the context of a group that is seeking His face for what He is doing within the Kingdom. As a physician, I was capable of making life-and-death decisions, but for years I was not allowed to take any kind of leadership role in church because of my gender. This was a huge source of sadness for me.
Thankfully the Holy Spirit is beginning to change all of this. There is an increasing understanding that the Scriptures do not prohibit women from leadership roles. God is using women all over the world to extend His Kingdom. Women have started over 80 percent of the house churches in China. A similar situation exists in Dr Yonggi Cho’s church in Korea where again women lead over 80 percent of the cell groups of the largest church in the world. Think of Heidi Baker, who with her husband, Rolland, is responsible for more than 10,000 churches in Mozambique and other African countries. In India, recently, I met a middle-aged housewife who, with the team she has trained, has started more than 6,000 churches.
What can God do with a woman who is yielded to Him?
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Comment by Carolyn on April 14, 2010 at 1:59pm -
And what are you going to do, Michael, with the work God is doing thru these women? I cannot speak for Felicity, but I would ask God why he doesn't stay within his own parameters...
Just like the Pharisees did when they asked Jesus why he healed on the Sabbath. They were clueless about the nature and character of God, as are those who beat up people with this verse. Clueless. Too bad.
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Comment by Mike Kim on April 15, 2010 at 2:03pm -
Michael,
I sense an overconfidence in you about this passage that I'm not sure you should have.
For one, on a theological level, in my and my wife's MDiv and ThM studies at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, no professor we had was able to (including Wayne Grudem who is the lead voice for Evangelical Complementarianism) adequately explain this passage. For one, there is no agreement on whether this passage is universal or contextual. Those that assume it's universal CANNOT adequately demonstrate its application. It cannot be absolutely and universally applied: what is "teaching"? whom can they then "teach"? what subjects can they "teach"? There were all kinds of theological gymnastics they would do to delineate (where the bible does NOT say) the application of this verse -- such as teaching high school kids the bible is ok but not any older (do we suddenly become "men" at 18?), or teaching any seminary classes outside of bible and theology are ok (e.g., counseling, christian education, evangelism, mission, etc.).
But at the end of the day, all of them were humble enough to acknowledge that we see through the glass dimly as Paul said to the Corinthians, AND that these were MANMADE applications of their personal reading/interpretation of a difficult passage. The president of our seminary wisely said, this is in a list of passages in the bible that when we get to heaven, we'll want to ask God, "Why didn't you say more about this to us? It could have REALLY helped, Lord!" I like that spirit immensely. Let's be honest, the bible has its fair share of these sorts of passages including Moses' wife throwing of foreskin on him.
So Michael, do you really want to claim that you know better than some of the best bible scholars out there what God was wanting to say in this passage? D. A. Carson? Doug Moo? Wayne Grudem? I think greater humility and love should be our posture on this -- rather than an overconfidence. Can we just agree that we're not fully sure what Paul was getting at, and that there is much to learn still on this topic? The Pharisees were guilty of saying MORE than what Scripture said, so I encourage you to be careful, and ask the Holy Spirit to shed light on this passage.
Secondly, on a spirituality level, I don't think you should be so overconfident in this passage because I don't think it is befitting of a man to be holding this passage over women using smiley faces to accentuate his point. I hope I am misreading you completely, but I sense a severe condescension in what you wrote and an assumption that these women do not want to obey Scripture regardless of its "inconvenience." If I am wrongly reading you, then I apologize for what I am about to say. But if I am not, then I must say loudly and clearly as a man to another man:
How dare you use Holy Scripture for your own agenda and insert your own [broken?] spirit over Jesus'.
Brother, this is WRONG, and you must stop doing this in whatever communities you are in. I do not believe this is anywhere close to the attitude of Jesus who gave up power and position (Philippians 2) to lift up and serve his bride (Eph. 5). You are holding on to power and holding it over women. Do you REALLY want to be the one who silences the other half (and the larger and more effective as missions history shows us) with an overconfidence in a passage that you really don't understand as much as you think you do? I know as a husband and as a leader who wants to model Ephesians 5 kind of Christ-like, servant leadership that I NEVER want to be found among such people. It goes against the very incarnation and mission of Jesus.
If you're going to engage in discussion, please engage with more civility, respect and Christlikeness to our sisters and fellow glory-sharers in the Lord. The 2nd Greatest Commandment demands that we do so. And so does the Great Commission that shows us what battle's are really worth fighting for.
For the growing of the Kingdom -- NOT for the parading of and the lording over of our personal opinions,
Mike from Arizona
"[what we wrongly think is] Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up."
-- Paul, 1 Corinthians 8
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