Marshall, you are certainly welcome to let people know about our interest. I have been part of home church groups but it has been many years ago. I think the home group or something akin to it is a great route for discipleship and growth in the Lord. We have reached a point where that seems to be a desirable path for us.
Hi Marshall, Thanks for the inquiry. Deb & I are looking for fellowship through friendship. We haven't found that yet. I've been in Richmond since last August and Deb since March. We left a large extended family behind and are looking to build that here.
Hi Marshall!! I'm here to learn about his concept!! I love the sound of it!! Very curious as to what this is all about. Also, I heard an interview with Bob Dutko and the author of "Small is Big". I came to this site, to purchase the book. But while I'm here, I'd love to look around a little! <3
Hi Marshall, I know there are many Simple churches in Perth, my sister belongs to one, I go to a big church - Beachway CCC, rely on a home group for discipleship, but can see the benifit of small church. Signed up because interested in simple church concept and church growth in general
Fallen Man still has a Level of Dominion over the Earth. So Some healing can be performed by Unbelievers, usually not the demonic kind.
But more than that, the Miracles are a Work of Grace and testament to God's Love. The Miracles and Healing Confirm the Word That is Preached, NOT the Individual. (Mark 16:20) Even Judas Iscariot performed Miracles Signs and Wonders, simply because his message was right, though his heart was far from the truth.
Unbelievers can perform Healings, if they preach a message that God wants to heal or if they exercise their Dominion over none demonic illnesses. :)
Your response has taken a tangent addressing something I wasn't even talking about. The video is not an example of perfect evangelism. It was to illustrate that none believers can perform healing.
Pete Cabrera Jr., a brother whom I well acquainted with, regularly pulls none believers when demonstrating healing and power in the Name of Jesus. That was my Point.
If you want to discuss evangelism, that's another point entirely, and you would find little argument from me regarding the need for repentance, etc. But again, we weren't talking about that.
I'm interested to know one what grounds do you feel that I should call into question if I have received His Spirit or Not? Is it because I Believe in healing?
If that is your criteria to encourage me to question if I have received the Spirit, you would be amiss, because as i've already expressed, a Non-Believer can perform Healings.
Was it my use of scripture to support the idea that Non-Believers can perform healing? Was that not an interpretation you agree with? Have I Offended your religious sensibilities? For that I am Sorry, but i believe my interpretation stands, and I'd be willing to discuss scripture that you feel offer a contrary view.
Perhaps it Is that I encourage and train other in Divine Healing, as well? If healing is not a doctrine you hold to, then why bother to ask me about it at all? Wouldn't it have been more prudent just to ignore the topic all together?
I'm still unsure as to what grounds are you judging the fruit of my life to be found wanting, to deserve such brotherly counsel as to determine of what Spirit am I?
If you have brotherly counsel for me, I'm anxious to hear it.
I’ve presented scriptural evidence to support my position as well as video testimony of a good friend of mine Pete Cabrera Jr.
I don’t appreciate you implying that he’s deceiving people or robbing them.
Not to mention you seek to question my Spirituality and growth with no knowledge of me personally or the fruits of my Life.
I don’t deny there are Charlatans, but how is that different from any other area of Ministry?
The “real” as you put it, is only associated with Real Saints, Real Faith, Real Work of the Holy Spirit, etc, then how was Judas able to Perform those Miracles?
Are you claiming that Judas Iscariot was a Real Saint, who Had Real Faith? Or were His Works really from another Spirit?
Your argument, though passionate, is not scriptural.
I know that may offend some people, but the Scripture clearly shows that unbelievers can do Real Miracles.
You can call it what you like. But until you can present a Scriptural argument, I believe what I’ve presented stands.
Slandering me, Pete or anyone else, is still not going to change the Scriptures to say anything different.
By the way, Jesus was also accused of doing Miracles by the power of Satan, so we're in Good Company.
I’m here to teach those who want to learn How to cast out devils, heal the sick, raise the dead and preach the Gospel.
I’m not here to argue your personal convictions, my friend. We all have our area of the Vineyard to work.
LOL, Marshall, that is a very weak argument. Its like some people who claim "Jesus Never said He was God." and then ignoring the life and ministry of Christ to clearly shows otherwise. Judas was part of the ministry, Judas was with them boasting about how even the devils were subject to them in Jesus name, Judas was part of the multiplication of food, Judas was even part of their arguments about who is the greatest. There is nowhere that suggest he was not.
Even the man who had the lunatick son, took his son to the Disciples and it says they could not cure him. It implies that ALL of them tried, because ALL of them had been doing this all along. None of this Exclude Judas.
If you want to add in the text "Except Judas" to fit your theology, I can't stop you from doing that, but understand that you would bending the text to fit your theology.
Of course Jesus taught them how to heal the sick and cast out devils, because he demonstrated it in their daily living together. His lessons were so effective, that even a NONE Disciple Picked up the lesson and started casting out devils on his Own. (Mark 9:38-39) Where did this none disciple learn to cast out devils in Jesus Names? Obviously from watching and observing the disciples.
Jesus did teach his disciples by demonstrating the power and then telling them to go and do likewise. That is what body life ministry is all about. Jesus trained his disciples to heal the sick, cast out devils, raise the dead, and Preach the Gospel, then told us to go do and likewise, and make disciples to do the same.
It is clear that you do not care for this teaching. That's fine and that's your choice.
If ever you change your mind, I'm willing to share what I know and what has worked.
On a side note, Are you aware of what Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit is?
It is when someone attributes signs and miracles that the Holy Spirit does and attributing it to the power of Satan. In much the same way you have subtly implied that we, who perform healing, are doing.
Jesus explained this right after the religious accused him of doing his works by being the Prince of Demons. Much like what you have accused us of doing.
Brother, be careful for your own soul's sake. You don't know me, or Pete or any of us personally to judge us to call us liars, magician or operating by another spirit. At most, you can humbly say, you don't know what we operate under. That would be an honest assessment, until evidence, scriptural or experiential, is presented to suggest otherwise.
If you want to get to know us, we'll be happy to fellowship and you may judge the fruit of our lives to determine that for yourself, first hand. And we'd welcome that.
But more importantly than that, If you're wrong, and the works we do are by the Holy Spirit, even though you don't understand them, you are dangerously close to committing a sin that shall not be forgiven in this life or the next.
LOL. Brother, I was Not defining Blasphemy, I was defining Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that Jesus spoke about in Matthew 12:31. If you cannot even discern the arguments and the points I AM making and continue to attack straw man points that I am NOT making, then it is off little concern to me, how you judge me.
More importantly, you have no given me any SCRIPTURAL Evidence to support any of your positions.
Your fruit have been made evident, and like Paul, It is very small thing that I Should be Judged by you. (1 Corinthians 4:3) I would no more concern myself with your counsel on this matter, any more than I would get decorating advice from a blind man.
Its not that I Don't love and Respect you as my Brother, but the fruit of the discussion has shown you are not someone qualified to speak on this matter.
I'm always open to discuss scriptural matters with you, as I don't lay claim to have everything figured out. But the key word is Scriptural.
As I Said, I'm here to work with anyone who wants to learn. I'm not imposing my teachings on anyone, they are free to accept or reject it, as you have so demonstrated.
As you've illustrated, you are not the Good Ground that I'm looking for. I don't want to waste anymore of your time, or mine, trying to change that. If that ever changes, I'm here.
Have a good day Bro.
You may have the last word.
I pray it is something substantive and not more slander.
Thanks for your comment. Paul and I have met for worship off and on from 2006 to 2009. He is a dear friend and brother in Christ...As for my simple church experience: I was introduced to concepts through written material from people like the Dales and Wayne Jacobsen around 2005. I was one of four elders in an institutional church (i.c.) in Seminole Florida and resigned in July of 2005 due to significant discrepancies between doctrine and application. We (myself, my wife and two children) visited several other institutions until the end of 2005. We began having mid week meetings at our home in early 2006 and Paul and his wife joined us. We would have 15 to 20 people for a while until July of 2006. At that time the Lord closed the door to the i.c. group that was partaking in the mid week meeting, leaving us with the Gundels. We continued off and on with them through 2009. Since that time we have continued with another person, Aida Judd. It has been a great experience overall with the typical hills and valleys that most experience. It is great to meet and then follow with a love feast and fellowship. It is not unusual for us to have worship from 10:30 to 12:00 and then carryon with the meal and fellowship until 3 or 4 in the afternoon. We do feel closer to our brothers and sisters through meeting in this way. I look forward to hearing from you further on this matter. Yours in Christ, Stephen
To your question about elders; Yes my understanding has changed. I understand an elder to be more of an organic process of an older more mature person being a "go to"resource in nurturing and guiding the local community of believers. In 2004 I understood it as a title for an elected person who had a "leadership role" for the church. Thus the headship of Christ could be obstructed by this man-made leadership more easily. There was a tendency for dependency and stagnation amongst believes in the i.c... We do see the Lord being glorified when we exhort, encourage, instruct, serve, cry and rejoice with one another...Tell me a little about your journey.
We are working on starting up a simple church network in the spokane area. Starting up in Newman Lake WA and spreading as far as we can. We are so ready to build an organic network in this area!
That was a very good insight you shared. I appreciate that. I think any meetings are meant to be public as to invite/encourage others to come and celebrate life in Christ and see body life/fellowship in action. The only exception are those groups being persecuted in their countries.
Thanks again, Bob
At 3:42pm on September 20, 2011, David Fevig said…
Marshall, not much going on here. We have been involved in a couple, one still going on.
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Marshall Diakon's Comments
Comment Wall (348 comments)
Marshall, I am not part of a group in Thomaston. My wife and I along with some friends are praying about starting a group in our home.
Mike
Marshall, you are certainly welcome to let people know about our interest. I have been part of home church groups but it has been many years ago. I think the home group or something akin to it is a great route for discipleship and growth in the Lord. We have reached a point where that seems to be a desirable path for us.
Mike
Hi Marshall, I know there are many Simple churches in Perth, my sister belongs to one, I go to a big church - Beachway CCC, rely on a home group for discipleship, but can see the benifit of small church. Signed up because interested in simple church concept and church growth in general
blessings
Roger
Fallen Man still has a Level of Dominion over the Earth. So Some healing can be performed by Unbelievers, usually not the demonic kind.
But more than that, the Miracles are a Work of Grace and testament to God's Love. The Miracles and Healing Confirm the Word That is Preached, NOT the Individual. (Mark 16:20) Even Judas Iscariot performed Miracles Signs and Wonders, simply because his message was right, though his heart was far from the truth.
Unbelievers can perform Healings, if they preach a message that God wants to heal or if they exercise their Dominion over none demonic illnesses. :)
Marshall, this is an example of unbelievers pulled in a pub praying for the sick and getting results.
Your response has taken a tangent addressing something I wasn't even talking about. The video is not an example of perfect evangelism. It was to illustrate that none believers can perform healing.
Pete Cabrera Jr., a brother whom I well acquainted with, regularly pulls none believers when demonstrating healing and power in the Name of Jesus. That was my Point.
If you want to discuss evangelism, that's another point entirely, and you would find little argument from me regarding the need for repentance, etc. But again, we weren't talking about that.
I'm interested to know one what grounds do you feel that I should call into question if I have received His Spirit or Not? Is it because I Believe in healing?
If that is your criteria to encourage me to question if I have received the Spirit, you would be amiss, because as i've already expressed, a Non-Believer can perform Healings.
Was it my use of scripture to support the idea that Non-Believers can perform healing? Was that not an interpretation you agree with? Have I Offended your religious sensibilities? For that I am Sorry, but i believe my interpretation stands, and I'd be willing to discuss scripture that you feel offer a contrary view.
Perhaps it Is that I encourage and train other in Divine Healing, as well? If healing is not a doctrine you hold to, then why bother to ask me about it at all? Wouldn't it have been more prudent just to ignore the topic all together?
I'm still unsure as to what grounds are you judging the fruit of my life to be found wanting, to deserve such brotherly counsel as to determine of what Spirit am I?
If you have brotherly counsel for me, I'm anxious to hear it.
I’ve presented scriptural evidence to support my position as well as video testimony of a good friend of mine Pete Cabrera Jr.
I don’t appreciate you implying that he’s deceiving people or robbing them.
Not to mention you seek to question my Spirituality and growth with no knowledge of me personally or the fruits of my Life.
I don’t deny there are Charlatans, but how is that different from any other area of Ministry?
The “real” as you put it, is only associated with Real Saints, Real Faith, Real Work of the Holy Spirit, etc, then how was Judas able to Perform those Miracles?
Are you claiming that Judas Iscariot was a Real Saint, who Had Real Faith? Or were His Works really from another Spirit?
Your argument, though passionate, is not scriptural.
I know that may offend some people, but the Scripture clearly shows that unbelievers can do Real Miracles.
You can call it what you like. But until you can present a Scriptural argument, I believe what I’ve presented stands.
Slandering me, Pete or anyone else, is still not going to change the Scriptures to say anything different.
By the way, Jesus was also accused of doing Miracles by the power of Satan, so we're in Good Company.
I’m here to teach those who want to learn How to cast out devils, heal the sick, raise the dead and preach the Gospel.
I’m not here to argue your personal convictions, my friend. We all have our area of the Vineyard to work.
LOL, Marshall, that is a very weak argument. Its like some people who claim "Jesus Never said He was God." and then ignoring the life and ministry of Christ to clearly shows otherwise. Judas was part of the ministry, Judas was with them boasting about how even the devils were subject to them in Jesus name, Judas was part of the multiplication of food, Judas was even part of their arguments about who is the greatest. There is nowhere that suggest he was not.
Even the man who had the lunatick son, took his son to the Disciples and it says they could not cure him. It implies that ALL of them tried, because ALL of them had been doing this all along. None of this Exclude Judas.
If you want to add in the text "Except Judas" to fit your theology, I can't stop you from doing that, but understand that you would bending the text to fit your theology.
Of course Jesus taught them how to heal the sick and cast out devils, because he demonstrated it in their daily living together. His lessons were so effective, that even a NONE Disciple Picked up the lesson and started casting out devils on his Own. (Mark 9:38-39) Where did this none disciple learn to cast out devils in Jesus Names? Obviously from watching and observing the disciples.
Jesus did teach his disciples by demonstrating the power and then telling them to go and do likewise. That is what body life ministry is all about. Jesus trained his disciples to heal the sick, cast out devils, raise the dead, and Preach the Gospel, then told us to go do and likewise, and make disciples to do the same.
It is clear that you do not care for this teaching. That's fine and that's your choice.
If ever you change your mind, I'm willing to share what I know and what has worked.
Much love my friend.
On a side note, Are you aware of what Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit is?
It is when someone attributes signs and miracles that the Holy Spirit does and attributing it to the power of Satan. In much the same way you have subtly implied that we, who perform healing, are doing.
Jesus explained this right after the religious accused him of doing his works by being the Prince of Demons. Much like what you have accused us of doing.
Brother, be careful for your own soul's sake. You don't know me, or Pete or any of us personally to judge us to call us liars, magician or operating by another spirit. At most, you can humbly say, you don't know what we operate under. That would be an honest assessment, until evidence, scriptural or experiential, is presented to suggest otherwise.
If you want to get to know us, we'll be happy to fellowship and you may judge the fruit of our lives to determine that for yourself, first hand. And we'd welcome that.
But more importantly than that, If you're wrong, and the works we do are by the Holy Spirit, even though you don't understand them, you are dangerously close to committing a sin that shall not be forgiven in this life or the next.
I'm just looking out for your soul, brother.
Keep well.
LOL. Brother, I was Not defining Blasphemy, I was defining Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that Jesus spoke about in Matthew 12:31. If you cannot even discern the arguments and the points I AM making and continue to attack straw man points that I am NOT making, then it is off little concern to me, how you judge me.
More importantly, you have no given me any SCRIPTURAL Evidence to support any of your positions.
Your fruit have been made evident, and like Paul, It is very small thing that I Should be Judged by you. (1 Corinthians 4:3) I would no more concern myself with your counsel on this matter, any more than I would get decorating advice from a blind man.
Its not that I Don't love and Respect you as my Brother, but the fruit of the discussion has shown you are not someone qualified to speak on this matter.
I'm always open to discuss scriptural matters with you, as I don't lay claim to have everything figured out. But the key word is Scriptural.
As I Said, I'm here to work with anyone who wants to learn. I'm not imposing my teachings on anyone, they are free to accept or reject it, as you have so demonstrated.
As you've illustrated, you are not the Good Ground that I'm looking for. I don't want to waste anymore of your time, or mine, trying to change that. If that ever changes, I'm here.
Have a good day Bro.
You may have the last word.
I pray it is something substantive and not more slander.
Hi Marshall,
Thanks for your comment. Paul and I have met for worship off and on from 2006 to 2009. He is a dear friend and brother in Christ...As for my simple church experience: I was introduced to concepts through written material from people like the Dales and Wayne Jacobsen around 2005. I was one of four elders in an institutional church (i.c.) in Seminole Florida and resigned in July of 2005 due to significant discrepancies between doctrine and application. We (myself, my wife and two children) visited several other institutions until the end of 2005. We began having mid week meetings at our home in early 2006 and Paul and his wife joined us. We would have 15 to 20 people for a while until July of 2006. At that time the Lord closed the door to the i.c. group that was partaking in the mid week meeting, leaving us with the Gundels. We continued off and on with them through 2009. Since that time we have continued with another person, Aida Judd. It has been a great experience overall with the typical hills and valleys that most experience. It is great to meet and then follow with a love feast and fellowship. It is not unusual for us to have worship from 10:30 to 12:00 and then carryon with the meal and fellowship until 3 or 4 in the afternoon. We do feel closer to our brothers and sisters through meeting in this way. I look forward to hearing from you further on this matter. Yours in Christ, Stephen
Yes. Call me at 978-561-1822 for details.
Hey Marshall!
We are working on starting up a simple church network in the spokane area. Starting up in Newman Lake WA and spreading as far as we can. We are so ready to build an organic network in this area!
Marshall,
That was a very good insight you shared. I appreciate that. I think any meetings are meant to be public as to invite/encourage others to come and celebrate life in Christ and see body life/fellowship in action. The only exception are those groups being persecuted in their countries.
Thanks again, Bob
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